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Sony HVR-V1 / HDR-FX7
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CMOS HDV camcorder.


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Old September 30th, 2006, 05:09 AM   #1
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Hdmi?

Okay, I do not truyly understand the implications of having an HDMI output on the camera.

Are there monitors that can display directly from the camera? If so, are there any smaller models like 17" computer monitors that can be used (assuming < 1080 resolution)? Is image-scaling built into DVI-capable monitors? For instance, could a 1080p24fps signal be sent to an LCD monitor so it can be displayed at the best possible resolution of that monitor and at the right aspect ratio?

Are there any possibilities that a computer could be used to get the information more directly from the sensors so editing could be done in a less-compressed fashion?

Could true 24p from the sensors be sent directly to the computer via HDMI so any interlacing or interpolated "stuttered" frames done for tape output can be avoided?

Does the HDMI output open up the possibility of Andromeda-like utilization of the raw video data?
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Old September 30th, 2006, 11:17 AM   #2
 
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It's not RAW video, no.

But you can feed a video village with an HDMI splitter at the best possible resolution the monitor can provide, and if it's got a good scaler in it, it'll look good when downsampled. HDMI is the "budget SDI" interface, and you'll see numerous HDMI-HD/SDI interfaces on the market shortly. I'm aware of at least three right now.
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Old September 30th, 2006, 06:33 PM   #3
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I'm looking forward to HDMI output to some kind of 802.11n transmitter and sending the video feed wirelessly to my laptop 100 feet away. When that's available, I'll be ready to upgrade.

If nobody's already working on such a product, they should be.
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Old September 30th, 2006, 06:44 PM   #4
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Being uncompressed HDMI requires an extraordinary data rate. This is beyond what can currently be done with wireless technology in the space allowed.
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Old September 30th, 2006, 10:14 PM   #5
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The HDMI port is one main reason why I might be getting a V1 in December. While the cheaper of the two new Canon cameras is slightly cheaper than the V1 the Canon camera with HD-SDI will end up costing a lot more than the V1. Since the DSP in Canon is 8 bit anyways you really are not going to gain anything by using SDI over HDMI. So therefore the SONY V1 will be the cheapest 3 chip HDV camera with live uncompressed digital HD output for visual effects projects.
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Old September 30th, 2006, 10:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin Emms
Being uncompressed HDMI requires an extraordinary data rate. This is beyond what can currently be done with wireless technology in the space allowed.
I believe they are working on a wireless HDMI spec with the goal of running 3 HDMI signals in a given area, and it didn't sound like a complete pipedream (I had the impression it was 1-2 years away). I'm assuming they're using something like 802.11n (540 mbit/sec), but I think the intended range was short. I assume it'll involve some compression of the HDMI signal. At this point I'd be happy with a 50 mbit/sec data stream (twice HDV) to reduce motion artifacts.

Bottom line: having an HDMI output is the best future-proofing feature they can put on a camera. Yes, its nice having the option of saving to tape, but if you need to move beyond HDV, then at least you'll have options.
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Old October 1st, 2006, 06:33 AM   #7
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"...but if you need to move beyond HDV, then at least you'll have options."

That's why I asked if the output is uncompressed. If it is compressed to HDV bitrate then expanded for HDMI output, there is no quality increase. If it is 4:2:0 output but not compressed to MPEG, it will be somewhat useful. I suspect the quality will not be uncompressed video in a high-bandwidth colorspace. It is probably going to be the same quality of video that goes out the analog video port, only it will be digital so the signal will be cleaner. This isn't a bad thing, but it does not really futurproof your camera since the colorspace may already be brought down to 4:2:0. Where HDMI might help is with the people that crave 24P. I'm guessing the HDMI signal won't carry anything but the 24 frames of data and the audio. If the HDMI signal is taken before compression and interlacing is done for tape storage, I think people will be very happy with this.

Either way, I think HDMI output is good. I think one must buy a camera for what it can do NOW, then hope it can keep being useful for years to come. I think the one thing the V1 may have that gives it longevity is greater exposure latitude. It seems to have all the basics covered and HDMI seems to be the universal digital output of the future. I hope it is implemented intelligently so people can get non-interlaced true progressive-scan footage in some form. Regardless, I think I may be a repeat Sony customer.
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Old October 1st, 2006, 10:46 AM   #8
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I for one am happy to see HDMI output on the camera. This means I can run a cable from the camera to my Plasma HD TV and instantly see the HD content I just created.
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Old October 1st, 2006, 08:34 PM   #9
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I would buy the V1 over any other camera strictly for the HDMI conection.
On my HC3 the HDMI looks much better than componet conection.
Using HDMI to Intensity card will be better for me as I do a lot of compositing and need the improved color.
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Old October 1st, 2006, 11:38 PM   #10
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On most HDV cameras the component outputs are 4:2:2 and uncompressed. I do not this for sure since I do not yet have my V1 but the signal through HDMI should be uncompressed 4:2:2. This was one of the main reasons why the Intensity card was made. Not only do you get uncompressed and 4:2:2 but the full 1920x1080 raster instead of the 1440x1080 raster of HDV.

If the V1 doesn't work like this I will be really sad since I can capture uncompressed 4:2:2 from my simple SONY HC1 with the component outputs.
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Old October 2nd, 2006, 04:32 AM   #11
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Uncompressed (*relatively) 4:2:2 would eliminate a lot of concerns by potential buyers. The whole "V1 may not be good for chromakey" question would certainly not have any merit. This would also give the V1 an edge on the Canon XH-A1 and move it near the realm of the $7000 Canon XH-G1.

Just imagine 24P recording on 60i 4:2:0 HDV in the field and uncompressed 4:2:2 in the studio for chromakey. Sounds nice, huh? It also sounds like a feasible setup for the V1. Keep your fingers crossed. I at least hope it is uncompressed 4:2:0 without interlacing.

*I realize that 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 is a form of information compression.
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Old October 2nd, 2006, 04:31 PM   #12
 
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The V1 outputs 1440 x 1080 4:2:2 at the HDMI output if you're using it for live output.
Post tape/recorded output is processed to 4:2:2 for HDMI output.
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Old October 2nd, 2006, 08:15 PM   #13
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Oh man, I can't wipe the grin off my face. Thanks for the HDMI confirmation Spot.
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Old October 2nd, 2006, 11:21 PM   #14
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I think Sony is going to have a repeat customer in Honolulu. Now, I can't wait!!! :)

I also hope that I will be able to build an inexpensive monitor from a computer monitor that has DMI input. I can't afford a laptop and HDVRack without cutting into my budget for props and food for the crew. Wouldn't a battery-powered 15" computer monitor with 1280x1024 resolution be nice if it can deal with the HDMI signal? Another nice thing is that most LCD monitors are already 12V powered via an AC adapter.
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Old October 3rd, 2006, 12:08 AM   #15
 
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Marcus, two words...."Papa Hui". :-)
See you in December!
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