Working with V1 24p footage and Final Cut Pro 5.1.2

[Heath McKnight]

How can I work with the 24p footage, ie, remove the pulldown in the latest version of Final Cut Pro 5.1.2? Can this be done in native HDV or do I need to use the Apple Intermediate Codec? How do I remove the pulldown?

I would love to be able to edit on a 24p timeline, native HDV, removing said pulldown. (Do I use cinematools?) I'm guessing there shouldn't be too much of a problem since FCP 5.1.2 can cut 1080p24 (at least F330/F350, and I'm guessing V1).

heath

[Heath McKnight]

One more question...How do flagged frame come back together? Do they get re-rendered as MPEG2-TS with a 15 GOP?

[Eric Darling]

Look closely at your capture options. There is a new HDV 720p24 codec that got installed when you installed the patch. There's no need to do any pulldown manually. That is, unless you're using a Sony HDV source, which doesn't do 24P.

[Heath McKnight]

Eric,

My original questions were about the V1, not the HD100, etc. Plus, there is an HDV 1080p24 Easy Setup option. I just need to knnow if it removes the pulldown.

heath

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

Do I use cinematools?

That's what comes to mind. But, to get at pulldown the MPEG-2 must be decoded which may make this a no-go.

[Bill Pryor]

Pardon my 24p ignorance here...suppose you want to shoot with this new V1 and you want to capture at 24p into a 24p timeline, edit and keep everything 24p, no pulldown, through your final DVD or filmout, etc. Can you do that in FCP now with the V1? Or I should say if the V1 were out today, can you do it?

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Bill Pryor

Or I should say if the V1 were out today, can you do it?

When the V1 is out -- the Apple support for 24p should be out.

[Greg Boston]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

When the V1 is out -- the Apple support for 24p should be out.

I wouldn't bet the farm on that Steve, I just spent 5 months waiting for Apple to give me full support for my Sony F350. ;-)

-gb-

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Well...Steve did say "Should be out" even though it likely "won't" be out.
That said, it's already been said by most of the NLE manufacturers that they'll have support for this "very soon." Vegas for example, will fully support it at the time it ships, and no....that's not because they're both Sony products. It's more because the Vegas team has always been on top of 24p.

[Nate Weaver]

So wait. The V1 isn't going to use the same method of repeat flags in the MPEG stream as the Canon to make 24p work? I.E., the pulldown is actual rendered video inside 60i stream?

That means, to remove the pulldown, you'd have to re-encode an MPEG stream. That will take eons!

[Barry Green]

Canon doesn't use repeat flags in its recorded output, AFAIK. I believe its HDV on tape is actually 24 progressive frames, not 2:3 60i. On its analog outputs and HD-SDI it adds 2:3 pulldown and outputs 60i, but in the actual HDV recording it's 24p, which is why it won't play on the Sony decks.

So, two questions:

1) Apple lists "HDV 1080p24" in its new 5.1.2 update. We all thought that naming was curious; up until the V1 there really wasn't such a thing. People just assumed it meant it was 1080/24F. Do we know for sure that it doesn't work with the Sony 24p?

2) Doesn't Sony's HDV 1080i/24P work exactly the same way (on tape) as CineFrame 24? Not in motion sampling, but in actual recording. If so, doesn't Cinema Tools remove 2:3 pulldown from 1080i footage? I'm pretty sure After Effects would... CineForm should properly remove it, yes? What about GearShift -- does that strip out pulldown on 1080i HDV? Or Vegas 7 -- in Vegas 6 there's 2:3 pulldown removal for DV files, did they extend that capability to HD in the "file format properties" option in Vegas 7?

[Nate Weaver]

Originally Posted by Barry Green

Canon doesn't use repeat flags in its recorded output, AFAIK. I believe its HDV on tape is actually 24 progressive frames, not 2:3 60i.

We're saying the same thing.

Originally Posted by Barry Green

Apple lists "HDV 1080p24" in its new 5.1.2 update. We all thought that naming was curious; up until the V1 there really wasn't such a thing. People just assumed it meant it was 1080/24F. Do we know for sure that it doesn't work with the Sony 24p?

The 1080p24 update to the HDV codec came with 5.1.1 and the XDCAM Transfer updates, for naturally, the XDCAM HD stuff.

The XLH folks learned quickly thereafter that they could transcode their material to the codec also.

Originally Posted by Barry Green

Doesn't Sony's HDV 1080i/24P work exactly the same way (on tape) as CineFrame 24? Not in motion sampling, but in actual recording. If so, doesn't Cinema Tools remove 2:3 pulldown from 1080i footage? I'm pretty sure After Effects would...

Well, that's what I'm asking. To remove pulldown out of a 1080i60 HDV stream would take forever, and recompress the MPEG which is a bad move because for many users the stream will see yet another HDV recompress when they color correct or add graphics.

I'm recompressing 2 hours of 1080p30 XDCAM right now for a user who will edit in 1080i60 HDV. Apple didn't see fit to use the same codec for both, so now it's a 10 hour render for 2 hours of material. Expect the same for removing pulldown as described above.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Sony wouldn't do that, especially now that they've pushed through 1080p24 MPEG support in most NLEs for XDCAM HD.

If we could just get a m2t right off the camera it'd solve it.

[Barry Green]

Ask Steve Mullen for one -- perhaps he still has the V1?