Suprised at Sony

Steve Mullen · October 14th, 2006, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

I agree with Peter. Sony said the camera would be available in December, so why not just relax and wait a little longer... it's only a camera ;-) If you need to buy before December then unfortunately the V1 isn't a good option for you anyway.

I have 4 hours of V1 video, but I haven't even had time to watch it all and take notes, let alone capture and edit it. Moreover, reverse pulldown software isn't yet available, so I can't even see real 24p. I'm working with Sony to get samples to them. (It really should go to Bluray, but the new Sony BR laptop doesn't ship for a week.)

I will be starting a brief series of "hands on" reports for camcorderinfo.com next week. After working with 30p for over 3 years, I've got to figure-out how to keep quality high while deinterlacing. Suggestions welcomed.

Bob Grant · October 14th, 2006, 05:55 AM

We placed an order for a V1 a few weeks ago and yesterday the Sony man rings us up and asks us why we didn't also order the new Sony HDD recorder, he was so confident we'd "need it" he added it to our order anyway.
Well for the money the HDD recorder thing is a no brainer but why the "need it" part?

My guess is it has something to do with how the V1 writes 24/25p to tape.
Can anyone confirm or deny if any current deck can handle how the V1 write "p" to tape.

Bob Zimmerman · October 14th, 2006, 07:28 AM

I don't think you "need it" but it looks like a good thing to have.

It is a good idea as a back up if something goes wrong with the tape. Or maybe I should say it would be nice to have a tape back up.
Let us know how it works.

David Heath · October 14th, 2006, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Grant

My guess is it has something to do with how the V1 writes 24/25p to tape.
Can anyone confirm or deny if any current deck can handle how the V1 write "p" to tape.

I think the "need" solely applies to how he feels your workflow will be.......

Regarding writing to tape, the implication seems to be that whilst the camera will generate 24/25p - true progressive - the recording will be psF, "progressive, segmented field".

The advantage is of psF is that it is compatible with interlace, whilst maintaining true progressive charecteristics. Conversion to and from psF and p is totally transparent, just involving reordering the order the lines are arranged, NOT like deinterlacing or scaling. (Which are far from transparent.)

In p the lines in a frame are arranged 1,2,3,4,5 etc. In psF exactly the same lines are arranged 1,3,5,etc in the first FIELD, then 2,4,6,etc in the other field, then back to 1 again as the next frame starts.

Bob Grant · October 14th, 2006, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Zimmerman

I don't think you "need it" but it looks like a good thing to have.

It is a good idea as a back up if something goes wrong with the tape. Or maybe I should say it would be nice to have a tape back up.
Let us know how it works.

Well the nicest thing about the HDD recorder is it'll hold more than 60mins of footage and that's a huge step up for anyone shooting events in HDV. Also on the V1 you get HDD status feedback in the viewfinder.

Dominic Jones · October 14th, 2006, 09:50 AM

Out of interest, what's the advantage of Sony's HDD solution over the Firestore FS-4 HD? Just the display on camera?

Sony's solution seems very expensive in comparison, and I would have thought as the 24/25p stream is "encoded" as 50/60i it would be compatible with the FS gear, no? If all I've gotta do is check the Firestore unit every now and again for a $500 saving I know what I'm doing!

Am I missing something?

Steve Mullen · October 14th, 2006, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Grant

My guess is it has something to do with how the V1 writes 24/25p to tape. Can anyone confirm or deny if any current deck can handle how the V1 write "p" to tape.

When a salesperson tells you that you "need" to buy something -- why didn't you ask him right then "why?"

Konrad Haskins · October 16th, 2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominic Jones

Out of interest, what's the advantage of Sony's HDD solution over the Firestore FS-4 HD? Just the display on camera?

Sony's solution seems very expensive in comparison, and I would have thought as the 24/25p stream is "encoded" as 50/60i it would be compatible with the FS gear, no? If all I've gotta do is check the Firestore unit every now and again for a $500 saving I know what I'm doing!

Am I missing something?

The Sony HDD senses if it is in free fall (dropped) and withdraws the heads to avoid damage to the disks. Plus it uses the same battery.

Heath McKnight · October 16th, 2006, 06:38 PM

We're shooting some cool stuff right now, so when Sony gives us the okay, we'll be throwing it out into the world. Nice little camera, but we're really about to put it through its paces! (grin)

heath

Peter Ferling · October 16th, 2006, 07:50 PM

I'd be curious about the handling in run and gun (getting the shot). I just wrapped a four-hour shoot for a medical proceedure with my HC1. It was a mockup so we have time to fuss over framing the shot (i.e. operate on cue).

Unlike my shoulder mounted shooting live attempt a few months back, this ones on the tripod in adequate lighting, the HC1 did the job well. I also had a rented HVX on hand, but was pleased with the HC1 result and could have just used another HC1 for the second angle. So, is the FX7 like an HC1 but with better manual controls?

Heath McKnight · October 16th, 2006, 07:52 PM

I think the FX7 is like the FX1, but with HC3-like controls. I think. I know it's more consumer-oriented than the FX1.

heath

Steve Mullen · October 17th, 2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

I think the FX7 is like the FX1, but with HC3-like controls. I think. I know it's more consumer-oriented than the FX1.

heath

The FX7 and V1 are identical except for the usual Sony additions for pros. Of course, no progresive.

They are nothing like either the HC1/A1 or HC3!

Peter Ferling · October 17th, 2006, 05:11 PM

I see. I found some picts and it does address much of the manual controls I wish the HC1 had (even for a consumer camera that mimics as a serious one). The pushbutton focus is a dire need. I blew one good shot this weekend when I thought I had focus and did not.

Not to change the subject, but when I compared this little single cmos cam to the HVX pany images, there was no contest. The image of the HC1 just looked better. Even my art director noticed the difference. I should have picked up an HC3 from best buy and used that for my B-cam instead. So my point: $6000 doesn't justify the HVX compared to these small sony cams.

I'm very interested in trying out this cam.

Steve Mullen · October 17th, 2006, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ferling

I see. I found some picts and it does address much of the manual controls I wish the HC1 had (even for a consumer camera that mimics as a serious one). The pushbutton focus is a dire need. I blew one good shot this weekend when I thought I had focus and did not.

This is the ONE missing feature that has held me back from the HC1 and A1. Unlik the V1's super fast AF -- these need to be manually focussed. One-touch has been on nearly every Sony camcorder. Why remove it?

I just realised the answer -- because the AF is so slow -- ONE PUSH would be too slow! So, Sony was indicating that you really needed to use Manual.

Which means the A1/HC1 may be fine -- although obviously compared to the HC3 it needs lots of light.

Conversly, given how good the AUTO functions are on the V1 -- perhaps the lack of controls on the HC3 is fully acceptable.

Floris van Eck · October 18th, 2006, 01:34 AM

Steve, you really like the V1 judging from your posts. Did you already hear from Sony if you are allowed to post some footage?

October 16th, 2006, 06:38 PM	#24
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	We're shooting some cool stuff right now, so when Sony gives us the okay, we'll be throwing it out into the world. Nice little camera, but we're really about to put it through its paces! (grin) heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

October 16th, 2006, 07:52 PM	#26
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I think the FX7 is like the FX1, but with HC3-like controls. I think. I know it's more consumer-oriented than the FX1. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

October 14th, 2006, 05:55 AM	#17
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	We placed an order for a V1 a few weeks ago and yesterday the Sony man rings us up and asks us why we didn't also order the new Sony HDD recorder, he was so confident we'd "need it" he added it to our order anyway. Well for the money the HDD recorder thing is a no brainer but why the "need it" part? My guess is it has something to do with how the V1 writes 24/25p to tape. Can anyone confirm or deny if any current deck can handle how the V1 write "p" to tape.

October 14th, 2006, 07:28 AM	#18
Bob Zimmerman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Illinois Posts: 888	I don't think you "need it" but it looks like a good thing to have. It is a good idea as a back up if something goes wrong with the tape. Or maybe I should say it would be nice to have a tape back up. Let us know how it works.

October 14th, 2006, 09:50 AM	#21
Dominic Jones Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brighton, England Posts: 225	Out of interest, what's the advantage of Sony's HDD solution over the Firestore FS-4 HD? Just the display on camera? Sony's solution seems very expensive in comparison, and I would have thought as the 24/25p stream is "encoded" as 50/60i it would be compatible with the FS gear, no? If all I've gotta do is check the Firestore unit every now and again for a $500 saving I know what I'm doing! Am I missing something?

October 16th, 2006, 07:50 PM	#25
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	I'd be curious about the handling in run and gun (getting the shot). I just wrapped a four-hour shoot for a medical proceedure with my HC1. It was a mockup so we have time to fuss over framing the shot (i.e. operate on cue). Unlike my shoulder mounted shooting live attempt a few months back, this ones on the tripod in adequate lighting, the HC1 did the job well. I also had a rented HVX on hand, but was pleased with the HC1 result and could have just used another HC1 for the second angle. So, is the FX7 like an HC1 but with better manual controls?

October 17th, 2006, 05:11 PM	#28
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	I see. I found some picts and it does address much of the manual controls I wish the HC1 had (even for a consumer camera that mimics as a serious one). The pushbutton focus is a dire need. I blew one good shot this weekend when I thought I had focus and did not. Not to change the subject, but when I compared this little single cmos cam to the HVX pany images, there was no contest. The image of the HC1 just looked better. Even my art director noticed the difference. I should have picked up an HC3 from best buy and used that for my B-cam instead. So my point: $6000 doesn't justify the HVX compared to these small sony cams. I'm very interested in trying out this cam.

October 18th, 2006, 01:34 AM	#30
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	Steve, you really like the V1 judging from your posts. Did you already hear from Sony if you are allowed to post some footage?