Suprised at Sony at DVinfo.net

Ray Bell · October 13th, 2006, 05:25 AM

I've been watching the Sony/Canon threads here for awhile now and I'm a little
suprised that Sony has not come out with any official footage that can be
shared/seen from the new cams... or allow some non-official footage...

If you look at the Canon threads there are excellent samples of footage from
their new cams coming out about the same time as Sony's...

I'm very much impressed with the night shots on the Canon cams...

Why isn't Sony allowing someone to take the same type of shots and letting the folks see what the camera is capable of.... just doesn't seem right

even the Sony sight hasn't been updated... just shows "coming soon"

From what I can tell so far, Sony is lending out a few cam's and the result
is a few future magazine storys,

you can't see footage from a magazine story...

Come on Sony, show us some footage... or at least give the cam to someone that will shoot the footage in different lighting and post it somewhere so we can see it...

Noah Hayes · October 13th, 2006, 06:10 AM

Well, the Canon is due out any day now...sometime during October they will be in stores. The Sony V1 is due to be released in December so I assume you won't see very much footage until next month or maybe December. I too would love to see how it performs, but I'm rarely impressed by the first 10 or so clips from any camera. Until someone REALLY knows the camera in and out, they won't be able to get the picture to the fullest capabilities of what it can do.

Bill Pryor · October 13th, 2006, 08:48 AM

Good point. When the Z1 came out Sony had a zillion DVDs available almost overnight. Same for the XDCAM HD cameras. I saw the DVDs of both of those long before I ever saw the cameras. Maybe they didn't have a final production model ready before the announcement, which no doubt was timed as a "takeout" announcement--designed to take potential Canon purchasers out of the market until they have something competitive out there.

Tim Le · October 13th, 2006, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Pryor

Maybe they didn't have a final production model ready before the announcement, which no doubt was timed as a "takeout" announcement--designed to take potential Canon purchasers out of the market until they have something competitive out there.

I don't think any manufacturer has a final production model when they announce it. Canon announced their XH cameras in late July and now they're available in late October. Sony announced theirs in late September and they're suppose to be available in December. So I don't think the timing is unreasonable. Heck, look at the HVX200. It was announced at NAB in April and wasn't available until the very end of the year. The HD100 also had a pretty long availability time.

Peter Ferling · October 13th, 2006, 10:14 AM

Let's not forget that making an expensive working prototype, then anouncing it's finished, is one thing. There is a little forgotten hurdle called manufacturing, and doing so on the cheap that will perform as well as the protoype, that folks don't understand. Even in that final phase, some inventiveness, testing, and data collection are needed.

Most companies have engineers dedicated to just this phase of the project. All the tooling, molds and machines have to be designed, built and tested.

Sometimes you'll need extra floor space, and that can mean additional construction, or leasing manufaturing facilities. Yes, some of this is ongoing during the prototyping phase of the camera/object/whatever. However, not everything can be done until the prototype is actually ready.

Taking that into account, you can understand why it takes several months.

We all know that marketing is faster than manufacturing. All this hype is to build momemtum and keep prospective customers eagerly at bay, stalling them from buying something else, in anticipation of getting their hands on one.

I was seriously thinking about getting a couple of Sony Z1U's, until Canon announced their latest offering. So, I can wait a few months. Another good is example is look at how many camera's Red Digital sold, and the thing is still behind plate glass display cases.

Lastly, I would want my camera to have a serial number 00000001. I'm not that eager to be beta tester, so waiting a few months more to work the bugs out, and not on my dime, also adds to duration.

Boyd Ostroff · October 13th, 2006, 06:11 PM

I agree with Peter. Sony said the camera would be available in December, so why not just relax and wait a little longer... it's only a camera ;-) If you need to buy before December then unfortunately the V1 isn't a good option for you anyway.

Chris Hurd · October 13th, 2006, 06:19 PM

I'm sure we'll be able to offer some V1 clips for downloading not long before the camera actually starts to ship, just like we did with the Canon XH.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · October 13th, 2006, 08:25 PM

Once I get some clearance on some pieces we shot, I'm sure I'll have several to upload.

John Froton · October 13th, 2006, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Once I get some clearance on some pieces we shot, I'm sure I'll have several to upload.

That will be great! I am looking forward to it :)

Bob Zimmerman · October 13th, 2006, 09:46 PM

this was shot with a early V1 model.

http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/baghdader/index.html

Chris Hurd · October 13th, 2006, 09:59 PM

Sorry Bob but that's not correct. Baghdad ER was shot with the Z1.

"In 2005, 12-time Emmy winner Jon Alpert and Matthew O'Neill took the Sony HVR-Z1U camcorder to the 86th Combat Support Hospital-the Army's premier medical facility in Iraq-to shoot material for their verite documentary Baghdad ER, which premiered last month on HBO."

Re: http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/Videog...a=a&bi=17&bp=1

Bob Zimmerman · October 13th, 2006, 10:11 PM

Chris do you read Studio Monthly? In the editors note it says right there that emmy award winning DP took another early model of the V1U with him to Iraq. I'm looking at it right now. Page 4. maybe she is wrong?

Bob Zimmerman · October 13th, 2006, 10:14 PM

I was thinking it must have been a real early model, but that is what is written. It talks about Spot jumping out of planes with his etc, then it talks about Jon Alpert going to Iraq with his V1U

Chris Hurd · October 13th, 2006, 11:12 PM

Maybe it's a typo or maybe Jon Alpert is *currently* going to Iraq with a V1U, or maybe "early model" means the Z1, but Baghdad ER was shot in 2005 with the Z1, and the V1 was still on the drawing board back then.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · October 13th, 2006, 11:33 PM

It's a typo. The Editor's comment also says I jumped with the camcorder at 90mph. I'd give my left something or other to fall that slow. My fall rate is 143 mph on avg. ;-)

John did not take the camcorder to Iraq. He did use it for some not-yet-disclosed-shooting for HBO, but he only alluded to it at the press conference, nothing was actually shown for reasons of rights/clearances.

October 13th, 2006, 05:25 AM	#1
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	Suprised at Sony I've been watching the Sony/Canon threads here for awhile now and I'm a little suprised that Sony has not come out with any official footage that can be shared/seen from the new cams... or allow some non-official footage... If you look at the Canon threads there are excellent samples of footage from their new cams coming out about the same time as Sony's... I'm very much impressed with the night shots on the Canon cams... Why isn't Sony allowing someone to take the same type of shots and letting the folks see what the camera is capable of.... just doesn't seem right even the Sony sight hasn't been updated... just shows "coming soon" From what I can tell so far, Sony is lending out a few cam's and the result is a few future magazine storys, you can't see footage from a magazine story... Come on Sony, show us some footage... or at least give the cam to someone that will shoot the footage in different lighting and post it somewhere so we can see it...

October 13th, 2006, 06:19 PM	#7
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	I'm sure we'll be able to offer some V1 clips for downloading not long before the camera actually starts to ship, just like we did with the Canon XH. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

October 13th, 2006, 08:25 PM	#8
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Once I get some clearance on some pieces we shot, I'm sure I'll have several to upload. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

October 13th, 2006, 09:59 PM	#11
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Sorry Bob but that's not correct. Baghdad ER was shot with the Z1. "In 2005, 12-time Emmy winner Jon Alpert and Matthew O'Neill took the Sony HVR-Z1U camcorder to the 86th Combat Support Hospital-the Army's premier medical facility in Iraq-to shoot material for their verite documentary Baghdad ER, which premiered last month on HBO." Re: http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/Videog...a=a&bi=17&bp=1 __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

October 13th, 2006, 11:12 PM	#14
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Maybe it's a typo or maybe Jon Alpert is currently going to Iraq with a V1U, or maybe "early model" means the Z1, but Baghdad ER was shot in 2005 with the Z1, and the V1 was still on the drawing board back then. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

October 13th, 2006, 06:10 AM	#2
Noah Hayes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sterling, Virginia Posts: 226	Well, the Canon is due out any day now...sometime during October they will be in stores. The Sony V1 is due to be released in December so I assume you won't see very much footage until next month or maybe December. I too would love to see how it performs, but I'm rarely impressed by the first 10 or so clips from any camera. Until someone REALLY knows the camera in and out, they won't be able to get the picture to the fullest capabilities of what it can do.

October 13th, 2006, 08:48 AM	#3
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Good point. When the Z1 came out Sony had a zillion DVDs available almost overnight. Same for the XDCAM HD cameras. I saw the DVDs of both of those long before I ever saw the cameras. Maybe they didn't have a final production model ready before the announcement, which no doubt was timed as a "takeout" announcement--designed to take potential Canon purchasers out of the market until they have something competitive out there.

October 13th, 2006, 10:14 AM	#5
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	Let's not forget that making an expensive working prototype, then anouncing it's finished, is one thing. There is a little forgotten hurdle called manufacturing, and doing so on the cheap that will perform as well as the protoype, that folks don't understand. Even in that final phase, some inventiveness, testing, and data collection are needed. Most companies have engineers dedicated to just this phase of the project. All the tooling, molds and machines have to be designed, built and tested. Sometimes you'll need extra floor space, and that can mean additional construction, or leasing manufaturing facilities. Yes, some of this is ongoing during the prototyping phase of the camera/object/whatever. However, not everything can be done until the prototype is actually ready. Taking that into account, you can understand why it takes several months. We all know that marketing is faster than manufacturing. All this hype is to build momemtum and keep prospective customers eagerly at bay, stalling them from buying something else, in anticipation of getting their hands on one. I was seriously thinking about getting a couple of Sony Z1U's, until Canon announced their latest offering. So, I can wait a few months. Another good is example is look at how many camera's Red Digital sold, and the thing is still behind plate glass display cases. Lastly, I would want my camera to have a serial number 00000001. I'm not that eager to be beta tester, so waiting a few months more to work the bugs out, and not on my dime, also adds to duration.

October 13th, 2006, 06:11 PM	#6
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	I agree with Peter. Sony said the camera would be available in December, so why not just relax and wait a little longer... it's only a camera ;-) If you need to buy before December then unfortunately the V1 isn't a good option for you anyway.

October 13th, 2006, 09:46 PM	#10
Bob Zimmerman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Illinois Posts: 888	this was shot with a early V1 model. http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/baghdader/index.html

October 13th, 2006, 10:11 PM	#12
Bob Zimmerman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Illinois Posts: 888	Chris do you read Studio Monthly? In the editors note it says right there that emmy award winning DP took another early model of the V1U with him to Iraq. I'm looking at it right now. Page 4. maybe she is wrong?

October 13th, 2006, 10:14 PM	#13
Bob Zimmerman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Illinois Posts: 888	I was thinking it must have been a real early model, but that is what is written. It talks about Spot jumping out of planes with his etc, then it talks about Jon Alpert going to Iraq with his V1U

October 13th, 2006, 11:33 PM	#15
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	It's a typo. The Editor's comment also says I jumped with the camcorder at 90mph. I'd give my left something or other to fall that slow. My fall rate is 143 mph on avg. ;-) John did not take the camcorder to Iraq. He did use it for some not-yet-disclosed-shooting for HBO, but he only alluded to it at the press conference, nothing was actually shown for reasons of rights/clearances. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com