So for Filmmaker, V1 or HD-110?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · November 1st, 2006, 08:40 AM

We're in shallow and dangerous waters when a wiki is cited as being authoritative. Oxford dictionary still holds sway, however. ;-)
But I love "gullible."
So many of us are.

Bill Pryor · November 1st, 2006, 09:14 AM

Aaackkk!!!! Wickipedia has "prosumer" as if it's a real word! History is going to look back on that entry as the beginning of the end of civilization.

That settles it. I hereby declare the non-word officially banned.

Ozzy Alvarez · November 1st, 2006, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Pryor

Aaackkk!!!! Wickipedia has "prosumer" as if it's a real word! History is going to look back on that entry as the beginning of the end of civilization.

That settles it. I hereby declare the non-word officially banned.

I always felt the word "prosumer" was a good way for the companies to tell us that it is user friendly enough for everyday consumers yet sturdy enough and with enough manual controls and features to appease a professional. I thinks it's better than saying a hybrid consumer/professional camcorder. Or a mixed camdorder. Or whatever else they might call it. Plus, "prosumer" sounds alot better than "confessional". :)

Ozzy

Bill Pryor · November 1st, 2006, 02:47 PM

I think what we have are Compact Professonal HD camcorders--CPHD camcorders, and ENG camcorders, and PHDs--Professional HD camcorders, ie., the HDCAMS, Varicams, etc. So, CPHD, PHD and ENG.
Nah, that sucks too.
OK, I give up.

Floris van Eck · November 1st, 2006, 04:36 PM

It is just an indication. There are three main categories: consumer, prosumer and professional. It is hard to distinguish what is professional and what is not. I think the build quality is of great importance as well as the feature set. I would not call a Sony HDR-FX7 a professional camera. It's a prosumer camera. The HVR-HC1 and HC3 are clearly consumer camcorders. Everything above $2000 is a prosumer camera in my eyes. The line between prosumer and professional is harder to define. Sony for example, lists the V1 and Z1 on their professional site, and not on their consumer site. Which would indicate that those are professional video camera's. I think within the professional video camera category, there is just a low, middle and high segment. The Cine Alta is clearly in the high segment, whereas the V1 and Z1 are in the low segement.

But I really do not see the problem of using prosumer. The alternative would be to call it the "amateur segment". Let's keep it prosumer.

Robert Young · November 1st, 2006, 08:15 PM

I think Bill Pryor is on to something.
Compact versions of things are:
1) usually less expensive
2) have fewer features
3) represent a trade off between size and function
When I think about it, the Z1 really does seem to be a "compact" version of a pro level camera.
To me, "Prosumer" sounds self contradictary to the point of stupidity.
So, why not:
-Consumer
-Compact Pro
-Pro

David Ziegelheim · November 1st, 2006, 08:16 PM

IMHO, price is the major determinant in which cameras compete with each other. After price, it is features/functionality. Clearly, if two products are the same except for a significant price difference, the cheaper one wins. However, most buyers...of any product...will consider any alternative in their price range.

So, the A1, V1, Z1, HD110, and to a lesser extent the HVX200 would be competitors. The H1 and G1 would more likely compete with the HD200/250 and to a lesser extent the HVX200.

If the SI-1920 was in a prosumer handycam package, would it be less of a camera? I don't know, however it would be sitting on the tripod behind me.

Steve Mullen · November 1st, 2006, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Young

To me, "Prosumer" sounds self contradictary to the point of stupidity.
So, why not:
-Consumer
-Compact Pro
-Pro

Why name it anything? We don't give different names to different sizes of HDTVs do we?

Gints Klimanis · November 2nd, 2006, 09:10 AM

I'd like to see camcorders borrow more of the features found on higher end DSLRs :

1) Focusing zones and dynamic group modes (even if they don't work at f/5.6 and smaller apertures). Camcorder auto-focus really has to get out of the "focus on the back wall" mode.

2) video histograms or colored-metering-zebra stripes on record and playback , if even held for one frame after computing

3) audio level histograms
Held over the last few seconds
Those peak meters don't hold long enough to be useful for level adjustment

November 1st, 2006, 08:40 AM	#61
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	We're in shallow and dangerous waters when a wiki is cited as being authoritative. Oxford dictionary still holds sway, however. ;-) But I love "gullible." So many of us are. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

November 1st, 2006, 09:14 AM	#62
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Aaackkk!!!! Wickipedia has "prosumer" as if it's a real word! History is going to look back on that entry as the beginning of the end of civilization. That settles it. I hereby declare the non-word officially banned.

November 1st, 2006, 02:47 PM	#64
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I think what we have are Compact Professonal HD camcorders--CPHD camcorders, and ENG camcorders, and PHDs--Professional HD camcorders, ie., the HDCAMS, Varicams, etc. So, CPHD, PHD and ENG. Nah, that sucks too. OK, I give up.

November 1st, 2006, 04:36 PM	#65
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	It is just an indication. There are three main categories: consumer, prosumer and professional. It is hard to distinguish what is professional and what is not. I think the build quality is of great importance as well as the feature set. I would not call a Sony HDR-FX7 a professional camera. It's a prosumer camera. The HVR-HC1 and HC3 are clearly consumer camcorders. Everything above $2000 is a prosumer camera in my eyes. The line between prosumer and professional is harder to define. Sony for example, lists the V1 and Z1 on their professional site, and not on their consumer site. Which would indicate that those are professional video camera's. I think within the professional video camera category, there is just a low, middle and high segment. The Cine Alta is clearly in the high segment, whereas the V1 and Z1 are in the low segement. But I really do not see the problem of using prosumer. The alternative would be to call it the "amateur segment". Let's keep it prosumer.

November 1st, 2006, 08:15 PM	#66
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	I think Bill Pryor is on to something. Compact versions of things are: 1) usually less expensive 2) have fewer features 3) represent a trade off between size and function When I think about it, the Z1 really does seem to be a "compact" version of a pro level camera. To me, "Prosumer" sounds self contradictary to the point of stupidity. So, why not: -Consumer -Compact Pro -Pro

November 1st, 2006, 08:16 PM	#67
David Ziegelheim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Warren, NJ Posts: 398	IMHO, price is the major determinant in which cameras compete with each other. After price, it is features/functionality. Clearly, if two products are the same except for a significant price difference, the cheaper one wins. However, most buyers...of any product...will consider any alternative in their price range. So, the A1, V1, Z1, HD110, and to a lesser extent the HVX200 would be competitors. The H1 and G1 would more likely compete with the HD200/250 and to a lesser extent the HVX200. If the SI-1920 was in a prosumer handycam package, would it be less of a camera? I don't know, however it would be sitting on the tripod behind me.

November 2nd, 2006, 09:10 AM	#69
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	I'd like to see camcorders borrow more of the features found on higher end DSLRs : 1) Focusing zones and dynamic group modes (even if they don't work at f/5.6 and smaller apertures). Camcorder auto-focus really has to get out of the "focus on the back wall" mode. 2) video histograms or colored-metering-zebra stripes on record and playback , if even held for one frame after computing 3) audio level histograms Held over the last few seconds Those peak meters don't hold long enough to be useful for level adjustment