V1 compared to FX7

[John Mitchell]

Is there a definitive table or list somewhere of the differences between these cameras? AFAIK some of the points of difference:

FX7 - no pro audio inputs, less manual controls, less Progressive formats, smaller body?, inbuilt michrophone, cheaper lens? (not low dispersion elements as in V1????)

Trying to work out which would be the best option for a telejournalist who's basically shooting all their own stuff with radio mics and a relatively lightweight tripod. Lots of travel involved. So anything anyone can add would be much appreciated.

[Chris Barcellos]

My understanding is that there are no progressive modes in the FX7, and no XLR mic inputs. Some black stretch options on V1u.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/ar...comparison.htm has a complete list of differences.

[John Mitchell]

Wow thanks guys

[John Mitchell]

Found out everything I need to know except one thing - are the lenses of different quality. The V1 clearly states use extra low dispersion glass and aspherical elements while the FX7 just says Carl Zeiss etc...

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by John Mitchell

Found out everything I need to know except one thing - are the lenses of different quality. The V1 clearly states use extra low dispersion glass and aspherical elements while the FX7 just says Carl Zeiss etc...

It's the same camcorder. Only the firmware is set to FX7 rather than V1.

A new handle with XLRs is added to the V1. Someway, the handle mic signals connect internally while the 3.5mm jack has been.

Lattitude is so great Knee control is not necessary. Black Streatch is NOT needed. Zebra not needed either. Histogram is the key. Black Compress would be very, very nice to have. That should have not been left out. (Just like the FX1 needed Black Streatch.)

Gamma #2 is way too dark, so only having #1 is fine. (Unless, you like making "moody" movies in which case you likely need 24p.)

CineTone can be replaced by increasing color.

Exposure #1 will be fine -- gain can be added by menu.

No Edge Crop will hurt if you go direct to 4:3.

If you use a wireless receiver, the 3.5mm jack will be fine.

The FX7 has a new stereo mic that does something better -- but I can't translate the Japanese.

So, the big one is 24p/30p. And, the money.

[Chris Barcellos]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

It's the same camcorder. Only the firmware is set to FX7 rather than V1.

I wonder how long before we see a hack to fix that.......

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Lattitude is so great Knee control is not necessary. Black Streatch is NOT needed. Zebra not needed either. Histogram is the key. Black Compress would be very, very nice to have. That should have not been left out. (Just like the FX1 needed Black Streatch.)

Gamma #2 is way too dark, so only having #1 is fine. (Unless, you like making "moody" movies in which case you likely need 24p.)

CineTone can be replaced by increasing color.

Exposure #1 will be fine -- gain can be added by menu.

No Edge Crop will hurt if you go direct to 4:3.

If you use a wireless receiver, the 3.5mm jack will be fine.

The FX7 has a new stereo mic that does something better -- but I can't translate the Japanese.

So, the big one is 24p/30p. And, the money.

It's all a matter of what you work with, and what you're needing. I personally can't see many shoots happening well without Black Stretch, and if you're encoding for the web, it's a MUST, not a "nice to have."
3.5mm won't cut it for any professional wireless system; you have to convert from XLR to 3.5mm. Consumer wireless systems (which the FX7 could work with, but are useless in many situations) have 3.5mm outputs, but any prosumer/professional wireless has balanced out, and the 3.5mm plug on the FX7 will require an adapter, adding to the bulk of what is coming from the wireless.
Gamma 2 has nice uses, particularly for shooting stage shots where you want smoother falloff. We shot Petula Clark/Rod McKuen rehearsals for their tour using this cam, and loved the Gamma 2 setting mixed with other settings.
As said over and over, if you're using this cam for casual shooting, be prepped for needing at least a fair amount of light as you'll need with any 1/3 chip HD camcorder regardless of the brand. Many of the settings are for pro's shooting in controlled lighting situations, and so you can get exceptionally creative with the cam and it's potential in production, seeing your results in realtime, and not worrying about all the additional hassle (and impossible to match) results in post.
IMO, the differences in the cams, just like the differences in the Z1/FX1, are substantial, and time-saving and creative-easing enough that professionals appreciate those differences. If you are an auto-shooter, then the FX7 is likely your best choice, but if you're a fiddler and tweaker, and want the best possible image, then the V1 is substantially a more optimal choice in my opinion.

[Daymon Hoffman]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this in previous threads... but the price difference that i seen was practically moot compared to the features you lose. Perhaps the prices i seen where not accurate. But if what i seen is accurate... you'd be silly to not spend 500USD more and get the full deal. (fel free to clarify real prices of each cam - either way here in .au they'll both be grossly over inflated).

[Tony Tremble]

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

....but if you're a fiddler and tweaker, and want the best possible image, then the V1 is substantially a more optimal choice in my opinion.

Douglas and Steve

Could you please give us an idea just how "tweakable" the V1 is? There has been mention of 3d LUTs but no detailed info as to how a user would setup the LUTs. Just what level of flexibility is available to the user?

With an 8bit format and one that is reasonably well compressed it is desirable to create the "look" in camera or at the very least slew the camera "look" towards the desired final grade of the finished piece. So from my perspective as a compositor this is an interesting aspect of the camera.

Just what information can be held in the picture profiles?

Any info will be gratefully received.

TT

[John Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

.
IMO, the differences in the cams, just like the differences in the Z1/FX1, are substantial, and time-saving and creative-easing enough that professionals appreciate those differences. If you are an auto-shooter, then the FX7 is likely your best choice, but if you're a fiddler and tweaker, and want the best possible image, then the V1 is substantially a more optimal choice in my opinion.

Hmmm - me I'm a fiddler and tweaker, but I need a cam for a telejournalist role (not me). I'm not even sure that the Z1 is not a better option with it's superior low light performance. Some of the shooting will be indoors, but the Z1 just struck me as a little bit bulkier and heavier for a one man travelling kit (and of course older technology now). However I'm leaning towards the V1 as I think the progressive modes will come in handy down the track, even though I'm not huge fan of 1/4" sensors. I'm thinking with so many photosites crammed into such a small area that the F stop range will be very limited before you start to get diffraction errors - probably won't want to shut down much beyond F5.6. I sure hope the NDs on this camera are strong enough to work in bright sunshine without external filters.

[Stu Holmes]

Originally Posted by Daymon Hoffman

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this in previous threads... but the price difference that i seen was practically moot compared to the features you lose. Perhaps the prices i seen where not accurate. But if what i seen is accurate... you'd be silly to not spend 500USD more and get the full deal. (fel free to clarify real prices of each cam - either way here in .au they'll both be grossly over inflated).

Prices have just changed again today! (reduction for the V1).

V1U has just come down another US$200 at B&H (was reduced by $90 just a few days ago) and is now priced at US$3,999 :
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=468701&is=REG

FX7 at same excellent NYC store is currently available for US$2,799 :
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

[Michael Liebergot]

Originally Posted by Stu Holmes

Prices have just changed again today! (reduction for the V1).

V1U has just come down another US$200 at B&H (was reduced by $90 just a few days ago) and is now priced at US$3,999 :
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=468701&is=REG

FX7 at same excellent NYC store is currently available for US$2,799 :
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

I heard that these prices were promo prices, and not the actual retail selling prices. I don't know how long they will last.

[Stu Holmes]

Originally Posted by Michael Liebergot

I heard that these prices were promo prices, and not the actual retail selling prices. I don't know how long they will last.

Well yes it will be interesting to see if those prices hold up. - I agree i heard they were promo prices. But still, they are current actual real prices for those machines and orderable today for that money.
Who know's what happens tomorrow!

[Mark Fry]

Originally Posted by Stu Holmes

V1U has just come down another US$200 at B&H (was reduced by $90 just a few days ago) and is now priced at US$3,999 :
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=468701&is=REG

Same as the Canon XH-A1 - until that gets discounted...