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Sony HVR-V1 / HDR-FX7
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CMOS HDV camcorder.


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Old December 12th, 2006, 11:07 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Tremble
Heath,

No change in brightness going from interlace to Prog on my V1e.

TT
Hmmm...The V1u I used has a slight variation in brightness between 24p and 60i, less so with 30p to 60i. Just like the DVX100a's I use.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 11:09 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath McKnight
Before you jump to conclusions, why not call Sony up and talk to their excellent pro tech support (all pro Sony models come with it; all tech support for consumer models like the FX1 or FX7 are routed through the consumer division) and see what's up.

heath
Already done that. Sony do not support the HVR models themselves and use a 3rd party. There are no technotes on their system regarding issues with the V1e.

The person I spoke to said that the problem "simply cannot be right."

I have not heard anything from my dealer having rung and left messages chasing for an update.

I was given a name to chase at Sony and will do that tomorrow.

It appears that the dealer i purchased from is not a authorised Sony Broadcast dealer. Hindsight is an exact science...

TT
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Old December 12th, 2006, 11:17 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Green
Ask the Sony techs, but I'm pretty sure the V1 doesn't work at all how you describe. For the 50i/60i mode you're describing conventional interlaced scanning, but AFAI can tell, the V1 doesn't ever scan interlaced, it only scans progressively, ...

As for this part: "Region 60 UNITS in 24p mode: Choose 24 of the 60p frames and add pulldown to get 60 fields."
I have no idea what leads you to think I said the chips are scanned in interlace mode. Of course, they scan every frame -- all 1080 lines, 60 times per second. Here is what I wrote:

Region 50 UNITS in 50i mode:

ODD 1/50th second: RESET all CMOS elements; allow integration time; read 960x1080 elements from chip into EIP; up-scale 960 to 1920 and low-pass filter vertical by 30%; encode odd lines from EIP as an Odd field.

EVEN 1/50th second: RESET all CMOS elements; allow integration time; read 960x1080 from chip into EIP; up-scale 960 to 1920 and low-pass filter vertical by 30%; encode odd lines from EIP as an Even field.

NOTE THE "READ 960x1080 INTO EIP."

------------

You are correct about 24p. I had a email from Sony Japan and in my memory I reversed it: "At 24p scan mode, we only read 24 frame per second, not select 24 frames from the 60."

-------------

But, that does not tell us how 25p and 30p are captured. So my test for Region 50 units remains valid -- is there a quality different between the 2 "fields" of an 25p frame. Specifically, is one "field" better than the other?

So back on topic -- what's the result of this simple test?
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Old December 12th, 2006, 11:18 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Tremble
It appears that the dealer i purchased from is not a authorised Sony Broadcast dealer. Hindsight is an exact science...

TT
Which is why we have a list of sponsors and dealers that we all work with often.

A note to everyone, if the deal on a new camera or whatever is too good to be true, it is. You won't be picking up a V1u in the US for $2500 without getting scammed on a lot of other items, like paying $500 for a $10 tripod (this happened to both a friend of mine and even me).

Sorry to go offtopic, but everyday I hear friends, students, colleagues and more telling me about this incredible price on a unit. Sigh...My mistake 8 years ago should be a lesson to avoid those guys!

heath
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Old December 12th, 2006, 11:21 AM   #65
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Don't rub it in :)

To be fair I have deal with these people for many years and never had a problem.....until now.

Bad firms improve and unfortunately good firms also go bad..

TT
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Old December 12th, 2006, 11:24 AM   #66
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Good point, Tony, good point.

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Old December 12th, 2006, 11:28 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

So back on topic -- what's the result of this simple test?
I replied earlier, both fields are bad.

The Progressive image appears to be a deinterlaced 50i frame, that has been filtered heavily. There is absolutely no one good field.

You can easily recreate the "progressive" look in any image manipulation software. Deinterlace (no interpolation), then apply a median filter.

TT

Last edited by Tony Tremble; December 12th, 2006 at 12:00 PM.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 12:12 PM   #68
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Update:

Dealer's camera show same reduced picture quality in 25P. Not just my camera is affected.

So if there are any US V1 owners out there could you record some 30P and see if you get similar results. 30P vs 60i how does it compare?

Cheers

TT
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Old December 12th, 2006, 01:18 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Webster
Tony, We'll go into FCP tomorrow and double check. The team using the camera are doing a once in a lifetime doco. I would hate for them to spend 2 months documenting this story only to find the camera has let them down.

http://www.onfilm.co.nz/editorial.as...ID=23920&src=H

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Zane Holmes using HDV!? i never thought i'd see the day.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 08:05 PM   #70
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V1P HDV capture into final cut pro.

Handheld - Not the best cinematography in the world. Don't flame me. I only work here.

Sequence setting is HDV 1080 50i - CAPTURE is only able to be set to HDV, so footage can only be brought in 1080 50i...which is how the camera records anyway, so no worries. When set to HDV 1080 25p footage requires rendering...not good so not done*

On playback it looks okay to me.

*NOTE - CAMERA SET TO 25P RECORDING*
Attached Thumbnails
V1 25p issues (combined threads)-v1-unscaled-hh-1.jpg   V1 25p issues (combined threads)-v1-unscaled-hh-2.jpg  

V1 25p issues (combined threads)-v1-unscaled-hh-3-plates-hidden-.jpg  

Last edited by Matthew Redmond; December 12th, 2006 at 10:08 PM.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 08:26 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Lawry
Zane Holmes using HDV!? i never thought i'd see the day.
Not so much HDV but 25p. 1st choice was the HVR-Z1 but was going to de-interlace. The loss in resolution made him go to the DVX for 25p. HVX workflow was too hard for this project. Really wanted HD, managed to talk Sony into a V1, who want a Zane Holmes seal of approval. Back up camera is a DVX.

2 months on a sinking island should make good copy for Sony.

I'm pretty sure Zane was involved in the SPP/Prime TV 'Interrogation' series which was all Z1.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 09:17 PM   #72
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Ah fair enough, yea Zane has a thing for those DVX's.

Interlaced footage looks good, now all we need to see is some progressive from the v1p.

Do we know of which Auckland retailers have them in yet? Last time i checked DVT were very keen on them.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 10:09 PM   #73
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Just edited my above message: screen grabs were recorded at 25P
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Old December 13th, 2006, 12:01 AM   #74
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Best of luck fellas - V1 looked like a dream camera.
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Old December 13th, 2006, 12:33 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Tremble
Update:

Dealer's camera show same reduced picture quality in 25P. Not just my camera is affected.

So if there are any US V1 owners out there could you record some 30P and see if you get similar results. 30P vs 60i how does it compare?
Everyone has assumed that the V1 can be clocked at 24, 25, 30, 50, and 60. If this is the case, then all frame rates should/must have the same quality.

But there is an alternative: the camera can be clocked at 24, 50, and 60. These all have the same quality. Then 25 is "derived" from 50 and 30 is "derived" from 60. I say "derived" because I have no idea what process would be used. You say it could be deinterlaced, but since the video is already 50p or 60p that makes no sense.

We'll soon see if 30p looks "bad."
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