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Sony HVR-V1 / HDR-FX7
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CMOS HDV camcorder.


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Old December 24th, 2006, 01:28 AM   #1
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To edit 24P right now with FCP I should...

grab a copy of vegas and preprocess? I'm sure I'm not alone in having bought my V1U for 24P work, and also heavily set up to use FCP as my NLE. Can someone with Vegas confirm that with the Vegas update, I can import the 24P-in-60i stream from my V1U, it will remove the 3:2 pulldown, and I can then export from vegas as an M2T file for editing using FCP? Is there an easier solution for me than to buy Vegas?

I need to start working on 24P editing soon, and can't sit on my hands waiting for Apple to update FCP.

Thanks.

Greg
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Old December 24th, 2006, 01:49 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Quinn
grab a copy of vegas and preprocess? I'm sure I'm not alone in having bought my V1U for 24P work, and also heavily set up to use FCP as my NLE. Can someone with Vegas confirm that with the Vegas update, I can import the 24P-in-60i stream from my V1U, it will remove the 3:2 pulldown, and I can then export from vegas as an M2T file for editing using FCP? Is there an easier solution for me than to buy Vegas?

I need to start working on 24P editing soon, and can't sit on my hands waiting for Apple to update FCP.

Thanks.

Greg
did you check out HDVxDV?
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Old December 24th, 2006, 02:11 AM   #3
 
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might just be my system, but HDVxDV crashes when I attempt to import 1080p, but has no issue with 720. I've emailed for support to see if this is unique to the flags in the V1U.
To answer Greg's question...capturing in Vegas and exporting QT or m2t for use in FCP works just fine on a MBP with Bootcamp.
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Old December 24th, 2006, 02:15 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Quinn
grab a copy of vegas and preprocess? I'm sure I'm not alone in having bought my V1U for 24P work, and also heavily set up to use FCP as my NLE. Can someone with Vegas confirm that with the Vegas update, I can import the 24P-in-60i stream from my V1U, it will remove the 3:2 pulldown, and I can then export from vegas as an M2T file for editing using FCP? Is there an easier solution for me than to buy Vegas?

I need to start working on 24P editing soon, and can't sit on my hands waiting for Apple to update FCP.

Thanks.

Greg

i have:
- vegas 7.0c
- the various v1u 24p-in-60i m2t files posted on this site
i don't have:
- v1u

so i don't know if vegas removes 3:2 pulldown on capture. and i can't seem to get it to do anything with the m2t files i have except deinterlace them, which is not what i want. why isn't there a clip property in vegas to remove 3:2 pulldown? the latest manual says you can right-click a clip in the clip pool and select "file format properties" to do just that, but i definitely don't get that option in my clip pool right-click menu.

so... a very hideous thing to do that works is:

(1) load the 24p-in-60i clip in vegas
(2) set the project properties to 1080p 60i
(3) write out uncompressed video

then
(4) load this into the free and open-source video editor virtual dub: http://www.virtualdub.org/download
(5) type Ctrl-R (to get the frame rate menu) and select "remove 3:2 pulldown..." don't select a new framerate!
(6) write out an avi file (which will be true 1080p24, but uncompressed)

then
(7) load this back into vegas and then write out a more edit/playback friendly format like cineform

i believe virtual dub can be setup to work simultaneously with vegas in a pipeline so that you don't have to write out an intermediate uncompressed format, but i didn't fiddle with this.

--------

what i'd be worried about if i were gonna buy one of these cameras is how motion looks. weirdly, i have yet to see a single actual 24p v1u file posted anywhere on the net. so using the hideous and desperate flow above i created one from the fast_dog.m2t 24p-in-60i file that a kind person posted elsewhere on this site. the clip is full of motion: background and subject, so you get lots of examples of motion blur and hdv artifacting. not sure how to post files on this site though. can someone help? thanks!
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Old December 24th, 2006, 02:32 AM   #5
 
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1. The clips posted on the VASST site are 24p.
2. The workflow in Vegas is simply to capture, and set the project for 24p HDV to remove. Vegas auto-sniffs the properties of the file.
The attached image is from one of the files downloaded just a moment ago from the VASST site, no different than any other file anyone might upload.
In this particular case, thefile is on a 60i timeline; notice that Vegas auto-sniffed, and has kept the 23.976 properties of the media intact.

You don't need to render uncompressed. If you're going to do that, you might as well render to a 4:2:2 format that FCP understands, with very lite compression such as a Bitjazz or BMD codec.
Attached Thumbnails
To edit 24P right now with FCP I should...-24p.gif  
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Old December 24th, 2006, 03:21 AM   #6
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i stand corrected! i had forgotten about those clips. i'm curious to know what was the shutter speed... it looks like it's around 1/500th. there's no discernable motion blur. anyway thanks for putting those up!

now those clips are native 24p hdv not 24p-in-60i hdv, right? i load yours in vegas and vegas tells me it's 23.97p. i load everyone elses in vegas and it says 29.97i, and i see that there's pulldown. does vegas only removes pulldown during capture? and is there a way to force it to do that? thanks again!
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Old December 24th, 2006, 03:39 AM   #7
 
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If Vegas sees the 24p flags, it simply captures the data as such. it auto-removes the pulldown, and will do so with either the 24p or 24p "A" mode. I'm trying to be careful to not suggest it's 24"PA" mode so as to confuse folks that might liken it to Panasonic's 24PA mode.
The cam that was used for those particular shots was a pre-production model. I've got some 30p I'll post as well, now that we've cleared the footage.

Anyway, those clips were shot 24p, and yes, they're in a 60i stream, but Vegas doesn't see them that way in version 7c. It simply displays them as you shot them. No need to force, 7c correctly sees it. Shoot in 60i, and it will see them as 60i fps.
Shutter speed is fairly high, I'd have to put the tape back in to see the datacode.
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Old December 24th, 2006, 06:34 AM   #8
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Excuse my ignorance, but what is the exact problem with FCP and 24P? I am just starting to use FCP and it seems to have more options than one could ever wish to remove pulldown.

And maybe I am saying something stupid, but I remember reading on the apple forums that cameras which were difficult to use with Final Cut often worked straight out with iMovie. Maybe that would be an option?
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Old December 25th, 2006, 07:59 AM   #9
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Neither FCP nor iMovie captures anything from my V1E :(
Not only 25p, nothing else....
I am not sure what settings to use, tried most of them. Camera can be controlled via firewire, nothing else happens. Getting sick of it...
Its a dual 2Ghz G5...somewhere I have read about issues with G5.
Any advice how to setup FCP or use HDVxDV or other software (apart from PC solutions, I am not ready to buy a PC) ?
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Old December 25th, 2006, 08:07 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zsolt Gordos
Neither FCP nor iMovie captures anything from my V1E :(
Not only 25p, nothing else....
I am not sure what settings to use, tried most of them. Camera can be controlled via firewire, nothing else happens. Getting sick of it...
Its a dual 2Ghz G5...somewhere I have read about issues with G5.
Any advice how to setup FCP or use HDVxDV or other software (apart from PC solutions, I am not ready to buy a PC) ?
Zsolt try selecting another Firewire driver from the Audio/Video Settings underneath Easy Setup in the Final Cut Pro menu. I can capture 50i no probs using Sony HDV Firewire. These setting can be different depending on what chipset your Mac uses.

Hope that helps. It wasn't until I used Easy Setup that my V1e was recognised by FCP.

Hope that helps.

Can you capture a Apple Intermediate Codec project?

TT
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Old December 25th, 2006, 10:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Tremble

Can you capture a Apple Intermediate Codec project?

TT
Tony,

So far I cannot capture anything. I purchased HDVxDV in the meantime, it captures well, but converting files to Quicktime is super slow...
The .m2t files that HDVxDV produces I cannot be imported to FCP, it says wrong file.
What the heck...!
Then importing the Quicktime files also not that easy as FCP wants to render them first. What a hassle and time consuming procedure...
I have spent the day with one clip.

I try the settings you have suggested, then come back here.
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Old December 25th, 2006, 12:19 PM   #12
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Nothing works with FCP.

HDVxDV captures from my V1E, but I cannot make FCP recognize the camera.
Any idea how to do it? Shall I use firewire 800?
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Old December 25th, 2006, 12:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zsolt Gordos
Nothing works with FCP.

HDVxDV captures from my V1E, but I cannot make FCP recognize the camera.
Any idea how to do it? Shall I use firewire 800?
Try iMovie for capture..but it won't be 24p.
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Old December 25th, 2006, 01:02 PM   #14
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Its funny, iMovie also does not recognize my cam.
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Old December 25th, 2006, 01:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zsolt Gordos
Its funny, iMovie also does not recognize my cam.

It can be finicky..you have to turn it off, turn it back on..etc.

Also, make sure all of your input/output settings are correct in the cam
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