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Sony HVR-V1 / HDR-FX7
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CMOS HDV camcorder.


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Old March 4th, 2007, 09:25 AM   #1
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V1E clips

I had my V1E updated last week and I took also some test clips with the fixed unit:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/cosmical/Clip002.m2t
http://koti.mbnet.fi/cosmical/Clip006.m2t
http://koti.mbnet.fi/cosmical/Clip008.m2t
http://koti.mbnet.fi/cosmical/Clip009.m2t

All progressive except Clip008 is i. All are direct captures from V1E.

There is also a comparison clip showing the new and old i and p mode (after SW update), the "old" version being shot in lower light than "new" (not directly comparable conditions unfortunately). This is edited in PremierePro2:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/cosmical/sony_hrv-v1e-test.mpeg

These played really well on my Full-HD TV when played directly from the Cam using HDMI. I am quite happy with the fix. I'll still try to burn this to a DVD disk and test on my HD-DVD player (if a manage to do this by a standard DVD burner, any hints how this could be done?).
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Old March 4th, 2007, 10:04 AM   #2
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Timo, burning a HD DVD structure onto a regular DVD - unlike the Blu-Ray - is quite simple, actually. I know at least two products (Ulead DVD MovieFactory since version 5plus, and Ulead VideoStudio 10plus), where you can "burn" a HD DVD to your HDD folders, and then copy them onto a regular DVD as data.

You say your fixed V1E can play directly through HDMI without line twitter; can you tell us which sharpness setting you used for 25PsF?
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Old March 4th, 2007, 10:06 AM   #3
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V1 Clips

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Mukari View Post
I had my V1E updated last week and I took also some test clips with the fixed unit:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/cosmical/Clip002.m2t
http://koti.mbnet.fi/cosmical/Clip006.m2t
http://koti.mbnet.fi/cosmical/Clip008.m2t
http://koti.mbnet.fi/cosmical/Clip009.m2t

All progressive except Clip008 is i. All are direct captures from V1E.

There is also a comparison clip showing the new and old i and p mode (after SW update), the "old" version being shot in lower light than "new" (not directly comparable conditions unfortunately). This is edited in PremierePro2:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/cosmical/sony_hrv-v1e-test.mpeg

These played really well on my Full-HD TV when played directly from the Cam using HDMI. I am quite happy with the fix. I'll still try to burn this to a DVD disk and test on my HD-DVD player (if a manage to do this by a standard DVD burner, any hints how this could be done?).
Timo,
Thanks for posting the clips. I'm sitting on the V1/CanonA1 fence and this is very helpful - I was amazed at the clarity.

I noticed a slight shaking in the clips - is the camera do this?

Thanks,
ChrisG
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Old March 4th, 2007, 12:02 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Chris Gerow View Post
Timo,
Thanks for posting the clips. I'm sitting on the V1/CanonA1 fence and this is very helpful - I was amazed at the clarity.

I noticed a slight shaking in the clips - is the camera do this?

Thanks,
ChrisG
I noticed the shaking also, it might be due to the light weight SLIK tripod I used, and due to my hands using the buttons. Next time I need to use the heavier Vinten tripod.
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Old March 4th, 2007, 12:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
Timo, burning a HD DVD structure onto a regular DVD - unlike the Blu-Ray - is quite simple, actually. I know at least two products (Ulead DVD MovieFactory since version 5plus, and Ulead VideoStudio 10plus), where you can "burn" a HD DVD to your HDD folders, and then copy them onto a regular DVD as data.

You say your fixed V1E can play directly through HDMI without line twitter; can you tell us which sharpness setting you used for 25PsF?

Thanks, I have some older Ulead VideoStudio version, which does yet not support this. Need to study if I have someething else that might work (I have at least PremierePro2, Vegas7 plus some older stuff).

I shot the clips using auto mode, i.e. sharpness was set to default (is it 7?). I noticed the ND2 was swithed on.

Btw. the TV set and HD-DVD player is Toshiba (37WL67 and HD-E1).
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Old March 4th, 2007, 01:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Mukari View Post
I shot the clips using auto mode, i.e. sharpness was set to default (is it 7?). I noticed the ND2 was swithed on.
I double checked this with the Cam and noticed the auto lock does not disable the PictureProfile (I am still quite new with this Cam) and noticed I was using PP6, sharpness set to 3. This may explain why there was no line jitter.
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Old March 4th, 2007, 01:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Mukari View Post
Thanks, I have some older Ulead VideoStudio version, which does yet not support this. Need to study if I have someething else that might work (I have at least PremierePro2, Vegas7 plus some older stuff).

I shot the clips using auto mode, i.e. sharpness was set to default (is it 7?). I noticed the ND2 was swithed on.

Btw. the TV set and HD-DVD player is Toshiba (37WL67 and HD-E1).

In the meantime, try the following: create a "HVDVD_TS" folder under the root of your regular DVD, and copy your video file rendered into MPEG-2 format (under the name of "xxx.mpg"). Please let us know if, and how it playes back on your HD DVD player!
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Old March 5th, 2007, 03:27 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
You say your fixed V1E can play directly through HDMI without line twitter; can you tell us which sharpness setting you used for 25PsF?
I repeated this test this morning with sharpness set to 3,5,7,9,11 and yes, there is visible line twitter, small at 5-7, quite bad at 9-11. In my opinion 5-7 is still usable (perhaps I will set my default setting to 6).

I'll try to make this HD-DVD test with the same material next week when I am back from my winter vacation. :)
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Old March 17th, 2007, 11:03 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
In the meantime, try the following: create a "HVDVD_TS" folder under the root of your regular DVD, and copy your video file rendered into MPEG-2 format (under the name of "xxx.mpg"). Please let us know if, and how it playes back on your HD DVD player!
Piotr, I did not manage to get this simple folder way working. Instead using the Ulead DVD MovieFactory6 (free trial version) it was really easy. The DVD (containing the above HD-DVD material) was working well with my Toshiba HD-E1 HD-DVD. The only problem I had was I first tried to make 25p but since the E1 does not yet support this I had to set MovieFactory to convert my file to NTSC (29.97fps).

I really could not see big difference between the shots whether shown directly from the Cam or from the DVD player (both using HDMI) , really nice quality compared to standard DVD. Maybe the DVD quality was slightly lower (due to this NTSC conversion), and the difference between the shots taken with sharpness 3,5,7,9 was maybe not as big as in when watching directly from the cam. I would need to have 2 TV sets side by side to tell whether there really was a difference.
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Old March 17th, 2007, 11:14 AM   #10
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Timo, I get it the line twitter was still there when you played your clips from the HD-DVD htrough HDMI, right?

Also, did you try the Sony's recommended sharpness setting at 3 (or even below)? Is the twitter on fine, horizontal, contrasty edges completely gone? The reason I'm asking is it is *NOT* gone with my unit here...
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Old March 17th, 2007, 11:26 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
Timo, I get it the line twitter was still there when you played your clips from the HD-DVD htrough HDMI, right?

Also, did you try the Sony's recommended sharpness setting at 3 (or even below)? Is the twitter on fine, horizontal, contrasty edges completely gone? The reason I'm asking is it is *NOT* gone with my unit here...
Yes, the "twitter" was still there with higher sharpness settings. I am actually not 100% sure what is meant by this "twitter" (that is why I am using quotes), but what I am seeing is increasing "noise" like fast movement in the fine details with increased sharpness settings. With sharpness 3 I would say it is completely gone, and even up to 5-7 I don't see this too disturbing. You really need to watch close, from normal wahtcing distances I feel this is not an issue even with sharpness 5-7 in my unit/devices.
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Old March 17th, 2007, 11:35 AM   #12
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From your description I guess we're not talking the same thing. Twitter is basically not the noise; it is sort of line alternation of uneven, but generally low frequency, which can be best visible with fine, bright, horizontal lines.

In my unit, it is always visible when the 25PsF video is deinterlaced, and vanishes completely when it's played back with a software player on a progressive monitor, with deinterlacing off. It is stronger with high sharpness settings, but doesn't go away even at 3 or below!

It's very important for me to establish whether my unit differs in this respect to all the other, fixed V1Es. If so, I'll ask my dealer for replacement (my unit is a demo one, anyway).
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Old March 17th, 2007, 11:51 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
From your description I guess we're not talking the same thing. Twitter is basically not the noise; it is sort of line alternation of uneven, but generally low frequency, which can be best visible with fine, bright, horizontal lines.

In my unit, it is always visible when the 25PsF video is deinterlaced, and vanishes completely when it's played back with a software player on a progressive monitor, with deinterlacing off. It is stronger with high sharpness settings, but doesn't go away even at 3 or below!

It's very important for me to establish whether my unit differs in this respect to all the other, fixed V1Es. If so, I'll ask my dealer for replacement (my unit is a demo one, anyway).
Do you see this twitter on the clips I made (attached above) ? If not then your unit is clearly not performing as good as mine ? If yes, then maybe my display devices are not working same exactly same way as yours?

Maybe the word "noise" was too inaccurate, I can see increased jitter in thin horisontal lines and also on some fine details (like bushes, where it looks a little bit like dancing noise since there is a lot of those moving details).
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Old March 17th, 2007, 12:05 PM   #14
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Timo, the best way to recreate the twitter in the captured raw 25PsF files is to play them back in the VLC player with deinterlace=bob. I did just that with your clips, and yes I think it is there. I can't be 100% sure because of the whole picture rattling; also there are no horizontal fine lines where the twitter is most manifested. Which sharpness setting do clips 2, 6 and 9 have?
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Old March 17th, 2007, 12:18 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
Timo, the best way to recreate the twitter in the captured raw 25PsF files is to play them back in the VLC player with deinterlace=bob. I did just that with your clips, and yes I think it is there. I can't be 100% sure because of the whole picture rattling; also there are no horizontal fine lines where the twitter is most manifested. Which sharpness setting do clips 2, 6 and 9 have?
These attached ones are all sharpness 3. I also tried my VLC with different deinterlease settings and especailly with bob and linear I can see a huge increase in jittering lines/details, but my TV shows the picture roughly same quality I see with deinterlace off (default setting) on my PC monitor. The jittering I mentioned above is nothing compared to this with bob or linear on. But why should you use deinterlace, these are progressive shots (25p), except one? There should be no reason to deinterleace these,
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