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Sony HVR-V1 / HDR-FX7
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CMOS HDV camcorder.


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Old April 24th, 2007, 03:50 PM   #1
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24p settings

What would be the best settings when shooting in 24p mode.
I've noticed that the sharpness must be set at 3 or lower.
Any other sugestions?
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Old April 24th, 2007, 05:20 PM   #2
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Douglas Spotted Eagle, the Sony GURU, indicates maybe 10-12, thats what I use on my V1. His DVD on the camera is invaluable and a great investment
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Old April 24th, 2007, 05:41 PM   #3
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I set the sharpness on 10 when I'm shooting in 60i which gives good results however when shooting in 24p the sharpness must be turned down to 3 or less. The Ants start marching on edges as the sharpness is turned up.
I do have a copy of Spot's DVD which was helpful.
I am an aspiring amateur videographer so thank you all for any help you can provide.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 10:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Magill View Post
What would be the best settings when shooting in 24p mode.
I've noticed that the sharpness must be set at 3 or lower.
Any other sugestions?
Sony's Cinema setting is 5 -- which is ideal for 24p given 7 or 8 is correct for 60i. There is only a tiny bit of aliasing at 5. Going below 5 kills way too much fine detail. You are shooting HD afterall.

Euro Sony suggested 3 for R50 units, but that's incorrect.
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Old April 25th, 2007, 09:21 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Steve Mullen View Post
Sony's Cinema setting is 5 -- which is ideal for 24p given 7 or 8 is correct for 60i. There is only a tiny bit of aliasing at 5. Going below 5 kills way too much fine detail. You are shooting HD afterall.

Euro Sony suggested 3 for R50 units, but that's incorrect.
Let's clarify things up: Sony's recommendation of sharpness 3 is only addressed to the PAL version users. However, even with the V1E/P, it's still not clear what Sony Europe (speaking via Prime Support) means it should cure:

- the line twitter? Well, it does not help; even with sharpness at zero, some fine, contrasty, near-horizontal lines are still twittering, when you just hook up the R50 V1 to a HDTV via component or HDMI

- marching ants (aka busy pixels, dancing dots, mosquito noise - you name it)? Yes, it is almost gone with sharpness at 3, and so is fine detail...

It has been established during my long experimentation (and exchange of opinions with others - specifically Steve Mullen or Bob Grant), that in order to avoid line twitter, you must not let the 25PsF get deinterlaced (by HDMI/component inputs, or by software players) - once you make sure the 25PsF signal is never treated like a 1080/50i, you can crank the sharpness up to even 15 and still have no line twitter at all. Currently, the only way to achieve it is use a software player with deinterlacer off (weaving).

As to the other artefact, unfortunately it cannot be totally avoided; the lower the sharpness, the less it is apparent. It was supposed to be the price that PAL users must pay for the elimination of "oil paint effect" (softness, or simply lower resolution in some areas, seen in the progressive mode before the fix).

I almost came to terms with this, and thought I found the right way of using the progressive mode on my V1E so that the artefacts are minimized - until recently, when I discovered the oil paint effect is actually still there. Or, to be more precise, the potential for it. I shot some video at full telephoto, in both 50i and 25p (sharpness the same at 7). Attached are snapshots from both; you can compare detail in the dark green trees in the distance.
Attached Thumbnails
24p settings-50i.jpg   24p settings-25p.jpg  

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Old April 25th, 2007, 10:52 AM   #6
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While we're on the discussion of V1U aids.

Is there much overlap between Steven Mullen's book and DSE's DVD?
Does anyone own both?

I own the book, but I have yet to buy the DVD.
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Old April 25th, 2007, 02:29 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Craig Irving View Post
While we're on the discussion of V1U aids.

Is there much overlap between Steven Mullen's book and DSE's DVD?
Does anyone own both?

I own the book, but I have yet to buy the DVD.
I'd kinda like to know the same. DSE, does your DVD cover any rolling shutter compensation tips/tricks/watch-outs? I know this is OT, and I have a real test shoot on Friday beyond my own backyard, but higher shutter speeds combined with fast pans/action do seem to generate that rolling shutter effect pronouncedly--especially at a zoom. I'm curious to see what the effect is when I shoot a performance from 75 feet out & zoomed in (at 1/60 or 1/30, of course...)

Thanks,
Matt
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Old April 27th, 2007, 10:27 AM   #8
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important update

I've just got a satellite receiver with a couple of HD channels, including Discovery HD. Watching them through component on the very same full HD devices that I've used in testing the V1E, I'm actually astonished how good my own V1E footage, including the 25PsF mode, really looks compared to some stuff broadcasted by Discovery HD!

Areas of lower resolution (the dreadful oil pain effect)? It's there too, mainly in the one-colour areas like green trees or grass!

Line twittering? Plenty, like on the brick edges!

Aliasing in contrasty edges, like white letters on black background? Very often!

Noise in low-light? Of course - in many under-water or night shootings!

Considering the quality standards adopted by Discovery HD, and the highest-end cameras used for production, the V1E is not bad at all in this comparison.
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Last edited by Piotr Wozniacki; April 27th, 2007 at 01:54 PM.
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Old April 27th, 2007, 11:16 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
Aliasing in contrasty edges, like white letters on black background? Very often!
Another friend sent me some video shot with a V1P. The shooter had not yet read my book and so shot 25p at 7. But they loved the footage!

When I watched it I was blown away. It looked more detailed than my U video and yet had ZERO twitter! And, no aliasing on hard edges. NONE.

About the same time you posted your pix showing P looked softer than I.

At the same time, Adam Wilt wrote that in I mode the U was soft. He called it "looking through ground glass." In my review I called it "filmic." Yet when he switched to P he said the ground glass was removed -- the picture become clearer.

What's going on? I'll let folks ponder this while I write down my thoughts.
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Old April 27th, 2007, 11:59 AM   #10
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Steve - what do you really mean by your comment? That the V1 is inconsistent in quality? Sorry, but I don't quite get you.

ZERO line twitter when played back without deinterlacing? Well, if so than it can be twitter free regardless of sharpness setting. Otherwise, it cannot be quite twitter-free at all, though at 3 and below it is hardly discernible.

Which Adam Wilt's publication do you mean?
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Old April 27th, 2007, 12:16 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
Steve - what do you really mean by your comment? That the V1 is inconsistent in quality? Sorry, but I don't quite get you. Which Adam Wilt's publication do you mean?
No "meaning" -- right now "food for thought."

Current DV magazine.

No line twitter on hdtv fed by mbp -- same as when i viewed your clip.
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Old April 27th, 2007, 01:30 PM   #12
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No line twitter on hdtv fed by mbp -- same as when i viewed your clip.
OK. Then one more question: what do you mean by "mbp"?
I guess I'm a little dumb today:)
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Old April 27th, 2007, 02:15 PM   #13
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I think it means MacBook Pro.

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Old April 27th, 2007, 03:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Irving View Post
While we're on the discussion of V1U aids.

Is there much overlap between Steven Mullen's book and DSE's DVD?
Does anyone own both?

I own the book, but I have yet to buy the DVD.
The dvd is about the basics. Mostly menu functions and buttons explanation.
Steve's book is more in depth analysis of what the cam can do.

Steve, how about producing a dvd?:)

By the way, Vasst released some really great videos on e.g. FCP or sound recording. (Before DSE kills me for saying his dvd is about the basics)
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Old April 27th, 2007, 07:30 PM   #15
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Steve, how about producing a dvd?:)
Once Bluray and/or HD DVD becomes well established this will be a great idea. I've see some great camcorder tests published on DVDs. Of course, these were made in Japan.
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