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Sony HVR-Z1 / HDR-FX1
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CCD HDV camcorder.


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Old February 5th, 2008, 04:39 PM   #1
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Shoot HDV with Mini DV tape

Friends,

I'm new with HDV, I have a Z1 and a FX1, so I would like to know if I can shoot HDV mode using Mini DV tape instead of HDV Tape...

Is there any loss os image quality?

Thanks

Marcelo
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Old February 5th, 2008, 07:02 PM   #2
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Yes of course. I use Sony Premium in my FX1 whether its DV or HDV. I do of course use NO other tape type in the camera. Mixing tapes brands is the thing to avoid especially Sony with anything else. Lots of people will tell you this is solved. I still don't mix. Main difference is reportedly less drop outs. But since I have not experienced any dropouts I can't comment on whether the more expensive tape is better or not. There is no difference in quality, information is digital, 1's and 0's. It either reads them or not, unlike like analogue tape where tape types and tape speed make a difference. Small number of dropouts could be masked by the data redundancy which could be manifest in a slightly different decode of the data possible perceived in some way in the picture. This is true of any data read/write system. Big drop outs effect an i-frame which will blank or freeze the picture for about half a second until there is another complete GOP for recovery( the one failing of long GOP MPEG). The one area were the HDV tape may have an advantage is if the tape is used many times or is used in a linear editor( does anybody do that anymore?) where the tape is shuttled back and forth and the better tape would stand up to this better than the Premium brand. Personally I shoot the tape, capture to PC and then put tape by for storage.

Ron Evans
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Old February 5th, 2008, 09:53 PM   #3
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I always used Sony Premium MiniDV tapes in my FX1 too. In over a year of shooting with it, I honestly cannot remember experiencing any drop outs. Aside from the risk of the slightly higher probability of drop outs using MiniDV tapes, it makes so much more sense to use them from an economic stand point. You do get the same picture quality.
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Old February 6th, 2008, 04:45 AM   #4
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I have a Sony FX1 and it came in a deal that included 2 premium tapes. I think they were around £10 each at the time? i was a student then and couldn't afford to keep buying them so moved to standard Sony dv tapes. The premium ones may have come down in price now but i have been using these for the past year or so and have had no problems so see no reason to change.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-Pack-mi...2293218&sr=8-1

£10 for 10 tapes over here, which is great :)

Best of luck

Stick
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Old February 6th, 2008, 06:34 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
Yes of course. I use Sony Premium in my FX1 whether its DV or HDV. I do of course use NO other tape type in the camera. Mixing tapes brands is the thing to avoid especially Sony with anything else. Lots of people will tell you this is solved. I still don't mix. Main difference is reportedly less drop outs. But since I have not experienced any dropouts I can't comment on whether the more expensive tape is better or not. There is no difference in quality, information is digital, 1's and 0's. It either reads them or not, unlike like analogue tape where tape types and tape speed make a difference. Small number of dropouts could be masked by the data redundancy which could be manifest in a slightly different decode of the data possible perceived in some way in the picture. This is true of any data read/write system. Big drop outs effect an i-frame which will blank or freeze the picture for about half a second until there is another complete GOP for recovery( the one failing of long GOP MPEG). The one area were the HDV tape may have an advantage is if the tape is used many times or is used in a linear editor( does anybody do that anymore?) where the tape is shuttled back and forth and the better tape would stand up to this better than the Premium brand. Personally I shoot the tape, capture to PC and then put tape by for storage.

Ron Evans
Thanks Ron, you helped me a lot. Regards
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Old February 6th, 2008, 06:35 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by John M. Graham View Post
I always used Sony Premium MiniDV tapes in my FX1 too. In over a year of shooting with it, I honestly cannot remember experiencing any drop outs. Aside from the risk of the slightly higher probability of drop outs using MiniDV tapes, it makes so much more sense to use them from an economic stand point. You do get the same picture quality.
thanks a lot, best regards. Marcelo
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Old February 6th, 2008, 06:39 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick Tully View Post
I have a Sony FX1 and it came in a deal that included 2 premium tapes. I think they were around 10 each at the time? i was a student then and couldn't afford to keep buying them so moved to standard Sony dv tapes. The premium ones may have come down in price now but i have been using these for the past year or so and have had no problems so see no reason to change.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-Pack-mi...2293218&sr=8-1

10 for 10 tapes over here, which is great :)

Best of luck

Stick
Thanks Stick... Just a question, have you ever re-used a tape? If yes, how many times can I re-use it? What do you recommend?

Best Regards.

Marcelo
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Old February 6th, 2008, 12:15 PM   #8
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Just to avoid confusion the Sony "Premium" tapes are actually their cheapest version; these are their "standard" tapes. They're fine for all HDV and DV use. I've shot a couple hundred over the past two years and never had a dropout. About $2 each over here.

Never re-use your tapes. Tapes should go through a cam/VCR exactly twice: once when you shoot and once when you capture.
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Old February 6th, 2008, 01:40 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Adam Gold View Post
Just to avoid confusion the Sony "Premium" tapes are actually their cheapest version; these are their "standard" tapes. They're fine for all HDV and DV use. I've shot a couple hundred over the past two years and never had a dropout. About $2 each over here.

Never re-use your tapes. Tapes should go through a cam/VCR exactly twice: once when you shoot and once when you capture.
thanks a lot... Best regards
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Old February 6th, 2008, 02:18 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Adam Gold View Post
Just to avoid confusion the Sony "Premium" tapes are actually their cheapest version; these are their "standard" tapes. They're fine for all HDV and DV use. I've shot a couple hundred over the past two years and never had a dropout. About $2 each over here.

Never re-use your tapes. Tapes should go through a cam/VCR exactly twice: once when you shoot and once when you capture.
Adam, are you sure about that? What would happen if you use it say 10 times? or 20 for that matter. Digital is 1s and 0s.

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Old February 6th, 2008, 02:22 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Stelios Christofides View Post
Adam, are you sure about that? What would happen if you use it say 10 times? or 20 for that matter. Digital is 1s and 0s.

Stelios
I have one particular tape that I play over and over again for software development testing purposes. It is as good as the day it was recorded in 1999. For all the tapes I have ever recorded, I haven't experienced a single dropout. I've even mixed Panasonic and Sony tapes though I try to avoid it if I can.

FWIW, the HDV specification uses much more data redundancy on the tape than DV, too.
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Old February 6th, 2008, 09:54 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Stelios Christofides View Post
Adam, are you sure about that? What would happen if you use it say 10 times? or 20 for that matter. Digital is 1s and 0s.

Stelios
Sure, the signal wouldn't slowly degrade like analog, but every time you run a tape over a head you increase the chance of a piece of oxide flaking off, creating a dropout -- which is much more noticeable on HDV than in DV.

And why would you want to? Tapes are cheap.
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