Buying the FX1 then what

Paul Henley · September 30th, 2004, 07:30 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : In theory your regular DVD's should be better too, but I doubt
the FX1 can beat the XL2 in a downconversion to DVD... -->>>

Hmmm, that seems like a bold statement to make.

While the XL2, resolution wise, has the edge over the DVX100(A) I'm still not all that impressed with the image. From the examples I've seen, the XL2 pictures exhibit significant amounts of chromatic aberation (purple fringe).

I guess we'll all find out soon enough.

Bill Ravens · September 30th, 2004, 07:42 AM

That's odd...I haven't noticed any fringing with my XL2. Perhaps you saw footage from a defective camera. There's also some footage posted taken from other XL2's that show no fringing.

Greg Harris · September 30th, 2004, 07:56 AM

The GL2 is also like that, my friend has it, and when i compare his footy from a CLEAR day vs. my dvx100 on the same day / same place the GayL2 has this purplish thing going on. Not sure what that may be about.

Bill Ravens · September 30th, 2004, 08:19 AM

It's astonishing to me how much variability there is in the human subjective opinion. Here's a link to a direct comparison between the DVX100A and the XL2. To my eye, the XL2 looks sharper and cleaner...

http://www.hyphencreative.com/video/...vx100a_24p.wmv

It just shows ta go ya. I also prefer Mobil1 over Pennzoil.

Paul Henley · September 30th, 2004, 08:38 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Bill Ravens : That's odd...I haven't noticed any fringing with my XL2. Perhaps you saw footage from a defective camera. There's also some footage posted taken from other XL2's that show no fringing. -->>>

Bill, the footage that I am refering to is Johnnie's footage taken in Vienna and Barry Goyette's beach video (bright sunlight surfing scene - at the 10 second point - if you freeze frame the shot, you can see the C.A. pretty easily).

Believe me, I wanted very much to like this camera (I'm a fanboy of Canon digital SLRs), but the chromatic aberation was too much for me to ignore.

Paul Henley · September 30th, 2004, 08:49 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Bill Ravens : It's astonishing to me how much variability there is in the human subjective opinion. Here's a link to a direct comparison between the DVX100A and the XL2. To my eye, the XL2 looks sharper and cleaner...

http://www.hyphencreative.com/video/xl2_vs_dvx100a_24p.wmv

It just shows ta go ya. I also prefer Mobil1 over Pennzoil. -->>>

This is more than mere human subjective opinion. There's no doubt that the XL2 looks sharper and cleaner next to the DVX100, but even in the link you provided chromatic aberation is present if you know where to look.

For instance: At the 14 second mark there is a clock tower on top of the building. If you look along the top edge of the building, contrasting the sky, you can easily see CA present.

Bill Ravens · September 30th, 2004, 09:39 AM

Paul...

I went to the 14 second mark, as you suggested, and examined the image at full resolution of my monitor (1280x1024). What I see there, and it's hardly even distinguishable at this resolution, is some aberration that looks to me like mosquito noise from the compression process. The reason I think it's mosquito noise is because all the fringing exists directly near a hot spot from the sun off of the tower dome. This is typical compression artifacts due to the high contrast ratio. I then backed up the video sequence to examine the DVX100 image at the same resolution. I see the same anomalies in that image. In fact, to my eye, the color banding looks noticeably worse. As I said, beauy is in the eye of the beholder...blah...blah..blah.

You may want to consider degaussing your monitor. if you're seeing color fringes there, they certainly don't show up on my monitor.

Greg Harris · September 30th, 2004, 12:22 PM

Yeah well the xl2 is soo big, i wouldnt be able to film skateboarding with that. The dvx is perfect for me. Some people flip out about how big the DVX is when filming skateboarding because their vx1's and vx2's are all small.

Mark Kubat · September 30th, 2004, 06:41 PM

Well, I was almost going to consider the XL2 a contender again if somehow the FX1 failed to be short of anything like Sony CineAlta quality... but it seems like there are issues? Wha?

That's okay.

Canon is bound to put out an XL2S - except it will be called the "XL2.5" because the new version will have a whopping 2.5" flip out LCD instead of current 2"- that is how they come up with their product number, no? The size of the flip out LCD?

Oh, and it will have 2 more XLR's as well for a grand total of 6. These 2 new ones will allow for mpeg-1 lossy audio capture.

Bartender, another double.

Rob Lohman · October 1st, 2004, 03:58 AM

I have to agree with bill here, I see fringing, but not purple. Looks
like compression in either the DV or the WMV in my opinion as well.

Paul: I did not say the image would look *better* than the FX1,
since that is all in the eye of the beholder. Also, a lot can be
done to tweak an image prior to hitting a DVD, but that's beside
the point.

I only said that I think the resolution/sharpness will be the
same with the XL2 and the FX1 when downsampled to DVD
(for the FX1). I'm saying nothing about picture quality....

Paul Henley · October 1st, 2004, 04:06 AM

Rob,

Understand now. Thanks.

September 30th, 2004, 07:30 AM	#46
Paul Henley New Boot Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: APO, AP (Korea) Posts: 19	<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : In theory your regular DVD's should be better too, but I doubt the FX1 can beat the XL2 in a downconversion to DVD... -->>> Hmmm, that seems like a bold statement to make. While the XL2, resolution wise, has the edge over the DVX100(A) I'm still not all that impressed with the image. From the examples I've seen, the XL2 pictures exhibit significant amounts of chromatic aberation (purple fringe). I guess we'll all find out soon enough. __________________ The beatings will continue until morale improves.

September 30th, 2004, 08:38 AM	#50
Paul Henley New Boot Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: APO, AP (Korea) Posts: 19	<<<-- Originally posted by Bill Ravens : That's odd...I haven't noticed any fringing with my XL2. Perhaps you saw footage from a defective camera. There's also some footage posted taken from other XL2's that show no fringing. -->>> Bill, the footage that I am refering to is Johnnie's footage taken in Vienna and Barry Goyette's beach video (bright sunlight surfing scene - at the 10 second point - if you freeze frame the shot, you can see the C.A. pretty easily). Believe me, I wanted very much to like this camera (I'm a fanboy of Canon digital SLRs), but the chromatic aberation was too much for me to ignore. __________________ The beatings will continue until morale improves.

September 30th, 2004, 08:49 AM	#51
Paul Henley New Boot Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: APO, AP (Korea) Posts: 19	<<<-- Originally posted by Bill Ravens : It's astonishing to me how much variability there is in the human subjective opinion. Here's a link to a direct comparison between the DVX100A and the XL2. To my eye, the XL2 looks sharper and cleaner... http://www.hyphencreative.com/video/xl2_vs_dvx100a_24p.wmv It just shows ta go ya. I also prefer Mobil1 over Pennzoil. -->>> This is more than mere human subjective opinion. There's no doubt that the XL2 looks sharper and cleaner next to the DVX100, but even in the link you provided chromatic aberation is present if you know where to look. For instance: At the 14 second mark there is a clock tower on top of the building. If you look along the top edge of the building, contrasting the sky, you can easily see CA present. __________________ The beatings will continue until morale improves.

September 30th, 2004, 06:41 PM	#54
Mark Kubat Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 375	what? XL2 isn't perfect? Well, I was almost going to consider the XL2 a contender again if somehow the FX1 failed to be short of anything like Sony CineAlta quality... but it seems like there are issues? Wha? That's okay. Canon is bound to put out an XL2S - except it will be called the "XL2.5" because the new version will have a whopping 2.5" flip out LCD instead of current 2"- that is how they come up with their product number, no? The size of the flip out LCD? Oh, and it will have 2 more XLR's as well for a grand total of 6. These 2 new ones will allow for mpeg-1 lossy audio capture. Bartender, another double.

October 1st, 2004, 03:58 AM	#55
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I have to agree with bill here, I see fringing, but not purple. Looks like compression in either the DV or the WMV in my opinion as well. Paul: I did not say the image would look better than the FX1, since that is all in the eye of the beholder. Also, a lot can be done to tweak an image prior to hitting a DVD, but that's beside the point. I only said that I think the resolution/sharpness will be the same with the XL2 and the FX1 when downsampled to DVD (for the FX1). I'm saying nothing about picture quality.... __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 30th, 2004, 07:42 AM	#47
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	That's odd...I haven't noticed any fringing with my XL2. Perhaps you saw footage from a defective camera. There's also some footage posted taken from other XL2's that show no fringing.

September 30th, 2004, 07:56 AM	#48
Greg Harris Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 356	The GL2 is also like that, my friend has it, and when i compare his footy from a CLEAR day vs. my dvx100 on the same day / same place the GayL2 has this purplish thing going on. Not sure what that may be about.

September 30th, 2004, 08:19 AM	#49
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	It's astonishing to me how much variability there is in the human subjective opinion. Here's a link to a direct comparison between the DVX100A and the XL2. To my eye, the XL2 looks sharper and cleaner... http://www.hyphencreative.com/video/...vx100a_24p.wmv It just shows ta go ya. I also prefer Mobil1 over Pennzoil.

September 30th, 2004, 09:39 AM	#52
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Paul... I went to the 14 second mark, as you suggested, and examined the image at full resolution of my monitor (1280x1024). What I see there, and it's hardly even distinguishable at this resolution, is some aberration that looks to me like mosquito noise from the compression process. The reason I think it's mosquito noise is because all the fringing exists directly near a hot spot from the sun off of the tower dome. This is typical compression artifacts due to the high contrast ratio. I then backed up the video sequence to examine the DVX100 image at the same resolution. I see the same anomalies in that image. In fact, to my eye, the color banding looks noticeably worse. As I said, beauy is in the eye of the beholder...blah...blah..blah. You may want to consider degaussing your monitor. if you're seeing color fringes there, they certainly don't show up on my monitor.

September 30th, 2004, 12:22 PM	#53
Greg Harris Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 356	Yeah well the xl2 is soo big, i wouldnt be able to film skateboarding with that. The dvx is perfect for me. Some people flip out about how big the DVX is when filming skateboarding because their vx1's and vx2's are all small.

October 1st, 2004, 04:06 AM	#56
Paul Henley New Boot Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: APO, AP (Korea) Posts: 19	Rob, Understand now. Thanks. __________________ The beatings will continue until morale improves.