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Sony HVR-Z1 / HDR-FX1
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CCD HDV camcorder.


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Old October 20th, 2004, 06:47 AM   #16
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Hearsay is B.S. Before NAB, people kept posting about how "a guy at Canon" told them all about the upcoming HDV XL2 (Called XR2 if I remember) and it was confirmed bla bla bla, and how long have people got confirmation/seen physical "proof" of the Apple PDA or the iPhone?

I don't believe it either. I'd love it, though ;-)
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Old October 20th, 2004, 07:03 AM   #17
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In all fairness Donial there was one single person who posted that XL2 HDV nonsense and it was not on this site. Somebody posted a link to it and we knocked it out of the water fairly quickly. The person who initiated that rumor was anonymous, and their "mysterious Canon source" was never named and it was never confirmed (and I did just about everything to dispell it that I could). In this case however with the Sony HVR-Z1, we have a much more credible source. Much more credible because it's coming directly from our discussion board and not some other site, and the poster has a name and a face and he is not known to B.S. about this stuff. I can confirm at least some of it, from what Sony reps told me directly at GV Expo earlier. So on one hand yes this is all preliminary and subject to changes, corrections and updates; but on the other hand it's nowhere near as awful as that ridiculous XL2 HDV rumor you're referencing. But hey, it's good to be skeptical about all of this stuff until it becomes legitimate!
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Old October 20th, 2004, 11:48 AM   #18
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The larger CCD is possible (and I hope to be true.) The same lens (as the FX1) can throw an image circle big enough to cover the larger sensor. It did mention that the Z1 will provide a wider angle of view (and shallower DOF too), so that makes sense.

HDV, a larger CCD and 24p at $6K – man, that’s one jerk-off camcorder for the low-budget filmmakers. ;)
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Old October 20th, 2004, 01:06 PM   #19
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I really wish that I had asked more specific questions. I feel foolish now, but at the time, I was just trying to stop from swallowing my tongue ;-)

The issue of larger CCDs may be misleading. The Sony guy said "bigger CCDs". I said "so, wider field of view and shallower DOF?" and he agreed. I don't know if the CCDs are physically larger, or if by saying "bigger" he meant higher resolution. I still wonder why Sony would break from the VX-2100/PD-170 tradition. Maybe it's because adding the 24p option required different CCDs that just happened to work out to be slightly larger. Who knows?

November can't come quick enough.
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Old October 20th, 2004, 01:28 PM   #20
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if the new pro version has 24P feature and cine gamma control,
I will sell my car to buy one right away.
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Old October 20th, 2004, 01:43 PM   #21
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It just doesn't make sense that the pro version of the camera would cost so much more for what seems to be a limited amount of extra functionality...I definitely believe there is something that we don't know yet that will justify that price...whether it be 24P or better CCDs remains to be seen, but I definitely think we will find out that the huge price increase is there for a reason...
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Old October 20th, 2004, 02:03 PM   #22
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Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of 24p HDV.

This will be Jesus' camera if it's true. I'm so glad I didn't jump on the XL2 - Canon must be beside themselves over this.
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Old October 20th, 2004, 02:25 PM   #23
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"I definitely believe there is something that we don't know yet that will justify that price...whether it be 24P or better CCDs remains to be seen, but I definitely think we will find out that the huge price increase is there for a reason..."

Hopefully it will be an interchangeable lens... Or come with Charles Pappert, so that those shots are nice and fluid ;)
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Old October 20th, 2004, 02:29 PM   #24
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Look at it this way. If anyone doesn't like the higher cost of the pro version, there are lots of options still available. Geez, people acting like this is something important (okay, just kidding, stop throwing things....).
Most people I know have only seen crappy HD in a bargain retail store and are not impressed.
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Old October 20th, 2004, 02:44 PM   #25
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I'm one of those people Joe... I like this cam, for most of its features- except the HD. And judging by the list of features on the pro model I like it even more.
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Old October 20th, 2004, 02:47 PM   #26
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if the pro version has progressive, then new chips would be in order, maybe thats what the guy meant, not bigger size but as chris said better resolution

as for the progressive 24p, let me say this, if sony won't do it i know panasonic will, just that pana gonna record to disc versus tape (a 51 statement, but so is this entire thread)

so maybe sony is just gonna say lets get it right from the start, or maybe this is a bogus thread

it reminds me when the rumours of a dvx100a were out, most folks said that there was no room on the camera for extra user buttons and that panasonic would not make changes to body only a year after it came out...well we know what happened there, this has tought me that anything goes these days, except with canon as they are pretty predictable, a little...
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Old October 20th, 2004, 03:07 PM   #27
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the larger pixel count? Maybe thats refering to the 'safe' area of the pro version? Maybe finally have something similar to what film cameras get. Be very nice to see whats coming.
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Old October 20th, 2004, 04:19 PM   #28
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Scott, how sure are you on 24p?

"Maybe it's because adding the 24p option required different CCDs that just happened to work out to be slightly larger. Who knows?"

So, Scott, you remain steadfast on the part of your conversation re: 24p with the said Sony tech (he wasn't the HD Truck tour driver, was he? were there beers involved?)

Can you clarify/elaborate re: 24p conversation a bit more - you don't think he mixed up 2:3:2:3 with 2:3:3:2 (cineframe 24) - you DO seem pretty certain about it being the "real-deal" on the Z1.

thanks!
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Old October 20th, 2004, 05:31 PM   #29
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Mark, I can only tell you what I remember. I don't remember the pulldown sequence, but he said it was different than the FX-1. He talked about true 24p and true 25p at full resolution. He talked about the camera in the context of independent filmmaking.

Like I said in the original post, the sales guys at the front of the truck might have well been truck drivers, as much as they knew about this camera. I always seem to weasel my way past the sales flacks and spokesmodels by barraging them with technical questions until their eyes glaze over. Then I finally talk to the guy whose business card has "engineer" in the title.
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Old October 20th, 2004, 06:08 PM   #30
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I think this is also where the "P" argument comes from. We already know the CCD block on the FX1 cannot produce progressive images, otherwise Sony would have included the feature. But if the pro version is in fact using different chips, there is at least the possibility of 24p and 30p.

If true, this goes a long way to justify the $6000 price quoted above,
Okay, let's think about this for a second. One way to look at it is to say "it's the same camera, they just developed this new high-def CCD for the FX1, etc... why would it be different for the HVR?"

But the other way to look at it is that there's a $3,000 price difference -- there better be something different other than just a couple of XLR adapters!

The presence of the switchable 50i/60i CCD raises some tantalizing prospects... I mean, if they had to design a new CCD from the ground up for the FX1, might they not also have designed TWO new CCD's, and actually use a different one in the HVR?

There's another camera that I can think of that has switchable 50i/60i... it's called the CineAlta, and it's a Sony, and it also has 24P and 25P and 30P, in addition to 50i and 60i. Sony knows how to do it. (of course, the CineAlta is $100,000 and the HVR is $6,000)... Would they do it for this camera?

Maybe.

I still can't fathom how the camera could be using a different-sized CCD... but maybe there could be something to this 24P/25P after all.

But like the man said, there better be something good in there to justify the price jump!

(then again, think about the Mini35, at $10,000, and the Pro35, at $30,000... what's the difference? Basically the lens connector, plus "pro's are used to paying more for their gear", right?)

Let's keep hoping for Sony to deliver the progressive goods...
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