capture component out? was: B&H ships FX1 at DVinfo.net

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Sony HVR-Z1 / HDR-FX1
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CCD HDV camcorder.


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Old November 4th, 2004, 11:52 AM   #1
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FX1 ships... best way to capture its Component out?

Just received my FX1 from B&H :)))

I ordered yesterday on the Camcorderinfo rumor that B&H would have FX1 in stock Nov 3rd.

Guess what... they shipped same day, so I received mine today.

Of course the price is higher than if I waited but... :))))

Oh, and B&H does not charge any sales tax if shipped out of NY state (we are in NJ).

NOW we can really shoot some quality indies, baby :)

No idea how to import the gootage into PC though. I would prefer *not* to use Cineform/Vegas if possible.
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Old November 4th, 2004, 08:58 PM   #2
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Premiere Pro and cineform - Ulead MSP and the HDV plugin for native editing. Cheap too ($600 I think)

DBK
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Old November 5th, 2004, 09:26 AM   #3
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Thanks Darren.

I remember a while ago we had a discussion re. processing the JVC HD10's footage, and you suggested capturing via Component.

At the time, I opposed.

However, I now think that IF Sony FX1 does provide quality Component out while in Rec mode, then there could be big advantages of capturing its analog HD output in real time.

I was thinking of building a dedicated PC with a basic Raid0 and probably one of the Blackmagic HD cards that allow for Component + audio capturing.

These capture cards also advertise the real-time editing/effects ability with their built-in acceleration. I'm not sure I like it, because this means ditching PremierePro 1.5 for yet another proprietary NLE...

Ideally, I'd like the card to just simultaneously capture the component video into 2 avi files: one low-res (say 720x540 4:1:1 highly compressed with PICVideo MJpeg codec or alike) for real-time offline editing, and one full-res 1440x1080 4:2:2 (either uncompressed or HUFFYUV-lossless-compressed.)

This will allow me to use low-res for the offline edit, while hi-res files will serve 2 purposes:
1. Special effects application
2. Final on-lining of the edit in HD resolution.

What would be your capture card recommendation based on these criteria?
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Old November 5th, 2004, 10:14 AM   #4
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<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Raskin : Thanks Darren.

I remember a while ago we had a discussion re. processing the JVC HD10's footage, and you suggested capturing via Component.

At the time, I opposed.

However, I now think that IF Sony FX1 does provide quality Component out while in Rec mode, then there could be big advantages of capturing its analog HD output in real time.


______

It does output via component in real time incase you haven't been told that yet.

I only got the camera yesterday, and I am still playing with it. I'll know it much better later this weekend as I do the comparison DVD.

I will say it is AWESOME

DBK
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Old November 5th, 2004, 11:10 AM   #5
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B&H

I just returned from the B&H store. Not that this matters to anyone, but the employees at the oversized-pick-up counter said that they've never seen anything like the rush of FX1 purchases they're currently experiencing -- at that's just in-store. Unless there's a rush on returns in the next week, then it sounds like Sony could have a hit on their hands.
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Old November 5th, 2004, 11:24 AM   #6
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The camera rocks dude :)

Can you say "independent iris/gain/shutter controls" :)))

It's your choice which ones of those to leave on auto and which ones to program manually if you wish.

Image stabilizer: probably it's best to leave it on Soft. This way it does not interfere with panning, while still preventing slight camera shakes from unsteady handling.

Component out while recording/standby: YES, full 1080i !! (JVC HD10 can't do that. Also, you can force FX1 to downconvert to 480i over Component if you don't have a HD monitor. I do have one and 1080i picture is great. Note that my monitor is 1280x720 LCD, so I'm not even looking at the full-res signal as coming out of FX1.)

On a different note: JVC D-VHS 30000 recognized and accepted FX1's video over firewire just fine! I remember that there was some confusion in user's predictions over this, so I'm hppy to deliver the good news.
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Old November 5th, 2004, 01:51 PM   #7
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Alex, have you actually recorded the FX1's signal onto DVHS and been able to play it back ok?
This is the problem I had when I tried playing Kaku's clips through my JVC 30000. They played just fine E-to-E over firewire through the JVC's component out (without recording), but once recorded I couldn't get the picture to sync up on playback.
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Old November 5th, 2004, 01:53 PM   #8
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Sorry if this has already been answered, but when you say "quality" component output are you talking about raw, uncompressed video, straight from the CCD's ?

My understanding of the JVC camera was that you could only get HDV compressed (<25mbps) signal out of it. A limitation dictated by economics more than anything.

If the Sony can output a clean HD signal over component that could be taken in with a Blackmagic card you're looking at some seriously good video, no?
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Old November 5th, 2004, 02:10 PM   #9
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Bob: I never checked the 30000 recording as I'm not interested in it as a recording device, just FW to Component converter. You are right - it does NOT record properly, although it DOES pass the signal through from FW input to Component output just fine. What's wrong with recording: no sound and some weird, random image blockiness.

Kaspar: I have no definite info, but I'd assume that FX1's Component out is simply a result of the internal D-A conversion - thus it most likely has already been compressed before the analog conversion. HOWEVER: Visually the picture is fantastic without any visible artifacts I could detect so far, thus I consider it high enough quality for the analog capture.
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Old November 5th, 2004, 02:19 PM   #10
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Guys,

When it outputs the signal through the component out it converts it to an analog HD signal.

To capture it, you would select a capture card, an A-D converter (As all HD cards are SDI only).

The stream is uncompressed when it comes out of the camera, otherwise it could not play on your garden variety, or pro HD monitor.

I just had a DP here checking out some stuff I shot yesterday - on all automatic settings.

We viewed it from the camera's component to my 1080i Ikegami Broadcast Monitor. This puppy sells for $22,800US

He couldn't believe the sharpness, the detail, how great the shadows were and how much detail he could see in it. I asked if he had any complaints and he said no, that it was as good as any HD picture he's seen - and he's seen them all.

We thought the camera could benefit from a little tweaking on the gain, but not much. We thought the camera could use a longer lens, but from a wide standpoint it was amazing.

My JumpStart 2005 Camera Shoot Out DVD will show the quality - even compared to a cinealta.

Simply incredible!

DBK
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Old November 5th, 2004, 02:44 PM   #11
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<<<-- Originally posted by Darren Kelly : Guys,

The stream is uncompressed when it comes out of the camera, otherwise it could not play on your garden variety, or pro HD monitor.

DBK -->>>

Yes, the stream has to be analog and uncompressed coming out of the component output. BUT it wouldn't be entirely surprising, in a move to protect the higher-end market, that Sony would apply HDV compression to the signal BEFORE D/A and output.

The rest of your post indicates the image coming out is awesome so who knows....
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Old November 5th, 2004, 03:21 PM   #12
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Seems like this Canopus card is one of the options that captures *both* FireWire output from FX1 (comes with drivers), and Component video.

http://www.canopus.us/US/products/ED...IUS_HDV_SP.asp

Good news: I just tested how would the existing HD Capture utility (came with JVC HD10 cam) capture m2t stream from Sony FX1. Guess what, it does capture it just fine! Audio/video in perfect synch, too.
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Old November 5th, 2004, 06:11 PM   #13
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i am sorry if i am not understanding this.

but if you capture via componet out i will get full unconpressed hd video from the FX1?

now is that catpturing from tape>componet out?

or is that capture live via sdi deck? bypassing any recoding on tape? just straight to the hard drive?
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Old November 6th, 2004, 10:21 AM   #14
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so... what's the scoop. is the component output compressed or not? If it's being used on HDTV screens, doesn't it HAVE to be mpeg-2 TS?
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Old November 6th, 2004, 10:37 AM   #15
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so... is the component output of the FX1 compressed or uncompressed? I'd be surprised if it's uncompressed. how would you play it on an HDTV if it wasn't already compressed to mpeg-2 TS?
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