Sony FX1 and dv 16 x 9 shooting at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-Z1 / HDR-FX1

Sony HVR-Z1 / HDR-FX1
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CCD HDV camcorder.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 15th, 2004, 11:29 AM   #1
New Boot
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 8
Sony FX1 and dv 16 x 9 shooting

I would like to know if this camera can shoot in the 16 x 9 aspect ratio while recording in the DV format?

Has this feature been addressed somewhere, because I've been unable to find the answer.

For the near future, until delivery and edit systems are more readily available supporting the HDV standard, this camera may make an excellent dv shooting solution. I was looking for a VX2100 to accompany my VX2000, but the FX1 looks like it has a bunch of manual control features that I would like to have but are not available as readily on the VX models.

Anyone have an informed opinion on this strategy?

Wes Mallard
Wes Mallard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15th, 2004, 12:24 PM   #2
MPS Digital Studios
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
Posts: 8,531
I don't think so; check out the stats on the official website.

heath
__________________
My Final Cut Pro X blog
Heath McKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15th, 2004, 03:10 PM   #3
New Boot
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 8
Answering my own question

The Videomaker Nov review indicates that the FX1 can shoot in an anamorphic 16 x 9 DV mode - whatever that means.

The review covers some other points about the camera for those considering their purchase options.

Check it out:

http://www.videomaker.com/scripts/ar...10594&GU=le929


How do you get the link to be active ?

Copy and pasting does not seem to work here!
Wes Mallard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15th, 2004, 03:16 PM   #4
MPS Digital Studios
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
Posts: 8,531
Anamorphic is all about true 16x9.

How to make websites so they're linkable...Do this:

[url ]www.dvinfo.net/conf[/url ]

What you need to do is drop the space between the "l" and the "]" in each case. You'll end up with:

www.dvinfo.net/conf

Hope this helps,

heath
__________________
My Final Cut Pro X blog
Heath McKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15th, 2004, 04:00 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 2,488
Anamorphic 16:9 DV implies that the camera records a wider angle of view into the fixed number of pixels defined by the DV format, effectively capturing more horizontal image per pixel--which then has to be interpreted accordingly for editing and playback. Since the FX1 has a "true" 16:9 sensor it can map that directly to a full 720x480 anamorphic image, whereas some DV cameras use workarounds which involve a loss of image quality to get a 16:9 image (some just crop the top and bottom of the picture).

Also consider that video shot and edited at HDV resolutions and then encoded to SD for final output should look about as good as you can expect SD to look--almost certainly as good as the best SD source footage. For any kind of video or photography work, starting with a higher resolution source can improve the quality of downsampled output, because the final encoding step has more data to work with.

If I was shopping for a new camera today I would definitely take a close look at the FX1 before making a final decision. If this camera has been available six months ago I would have bought one then, when I needed another camera.
Kevin Shaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15th, 2004, 11:02 PM   #6
MPS Digital Studios
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
Posts: 8,531
Thanks, Kevin!

heath
__________________
My Final Cut Pro X blog
Heath McKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16th, 2004, 08:53 AM   #7
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,543
Since there seems to be some ambiguity about this I just looked at the PDF version of the FX-1 manual from Sony's site. It clearly states that you can record in 16:9 DV mode. In the honored tradition of Sony manuals, the wording is pretty awkward, but the illustrations show anamorphic 16:9 (actually they are the same pictures of a soccer ball that all the other Sony manuals have used for years ;-)
Quote:
Recording in 16:9 wide rec mode DV
You can display pictures recorded in the DV format on the entire TV screen by setting [DV WIDE REC] on the (CAMERA SET) menu at the time of recording.
See page 40 of the manual http://www.docs.sony.com/release/HDRFX1.pdf
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16th, 2004, 09:09 AM   #8
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
See also my FX1 and Z1U Comparison Chart - Optical Group. The field of view for 16:9 mode is wider than the field of view for 4:3, which is another indicator that you're getting true 16:9, even in plain-vanilla DV mode.
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16th, 2004, 09:26 AM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 547
The HDR-FX1 can shoot in 16:9 DV:

The 16:9 DV format is 720x480 with a Pixel Aspect (PA) ratio of 1.2 (i.e., 864x480 w/ square pixels)
The 4:3 DV format is 720x480 with PA ratio 0.9 (i.e., 640x480 square pixels)

HDV is shot in 16:9 at 1440x1080 - the PA ratio is 1.3333..., which (incidentally) is not supported by any of the software I have (Premiere Pro 1.0, After Effects 6.0 Std.)

Basically you can shoot in 16:9 HDV, 16:9 DV or 4:3 DV with the camera. In addition you can down-convert HDV on export to either 16:9 DV (anamorphic) or 4:3 DV (letterboxed). To do this one selects both HDV->DV iLink convert and either a 16:9 or 4:3 TV type for anamorphic and letterboxed video respectively.

So far as I can tell there's no HDV->DV "pan and scan" option to output full-frame 4:3 video (though I would personally never be interested in this feature).

The only way to get full-frame 4:3 video out of the HDR-FX1 is to shoot in 4:3 DV mode.

I can further report, that on DV export the camera also handles the interlaced frames appropriately, rendering out Cineframe 24 clips as 2:3 interlaced DV footage as well without any artifacts that I could notice.

-Steve
Steven White is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16th, 2004, 03:08 PM   #10
MPS Digital Studios
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
Posts: 8,531
<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : even in plain-vanilla DV mode. -->>>

I never thought I'd hear DV as "plain-vanilla..."

heath
__________________
My Final Cut Pro X blog
Heath McKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16th, 2004, 03:35 PM   #11
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,543
<<<-- Originally posted by Steven White : The 16:9 DV format is 720x480 with a Pixel Aspect (PA) ratio of 1.2 (i.e., 864x480 w/ square pixels) -->>>

Are you sure about this; it would be non-standard? 16:9 on a square pixel device is normally 854x480 (some screens are 852x480). If what you say is true then everything would be a bit distorted on an enhanced definition (ED) monitor like a plasma screen. It would also scale improperly on a 1280x720 HD screen....
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16th, 2004, 03:54 PM   #12
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 2,488
Boyd: DV by definition is 720x480 pixels, so using that to maximum advantage requires adjusting pixel aspect ratios as Steve described. In other words, the image is horizontally compressed during recording and then expanded on playback to fill the correct area on a TV or computer screen. This is generally referred to as "anamorphic" video, and most DVD players know how to deal with this. The alternative is to simply crop the top and bottom of an image during recording to get 16:9 video with black bars at the top and bottom, but then you're losing image quality compared to the anamorphic approach.
Kevin Shaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16th, 2004, 04:23 PM   #13
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,543
Kevin, I'm quite aware of all this. What I question is Steven's statement that 16:9 is 864x480. It should be 854x480. 480 x 16 / 9 = 853.33 which is generally rounded up to 854, and not 864. Please read my post again about why this would be a problem.
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16th, 2004, 04:48 PM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 547
720*1.2 = 864

It was just a back of the envellope calculation. Technically the ratio should be 1.1815181518151... but I have no idea how many significant figures are carried, nor if a human would even notice the difference. Furthermore, I am under the impression there is overscan and interpolation on most plasma displays anyway, so an upsampling error of +/- 10 pixels wouldn't make a lot of difference.

As for the 1280x720 screens, my impression was that most were 1280x768 or some such bizarre resolution.

With multiple video standards that are not integer multiples in terms of resolution, there's no way that a digital display will be made that displays without any scaling solutions... Which is one of the reasons I decided not to worry about the HDR-FX1 and it's 1.333333333... pixel aspect ratio.

-Steve
Steven White is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16th, 2004, 05:35 PM   #15
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,543
Granted, we are probably splitting hairs here, but I find the topic interesting... If it's really 16:9 aspect ratio then 16 / 9 = 1.778, so 854 / 480 = 1.779. Now 864 / 480 = 1.80 and I suppose that's pretty close, but not quite right.

All of the ED plasma screens that I've seen are either 852 x 480 or 854 x 480; I think this is also known as WVGA. There do seem to be some 1280 x 768 LCD screens - I have a 17" Sony LCD like this - but 1280 x 720 is actually the HD standard and I have a 22" Samsung LCD with this resolution. I've also seen this refered to as WXGA.

Now it seems that the different TV manufacturers do play pretty loose with their screen aspect ratios. Just look in a showroom and you can see that widescreen TV's have different proportions. For example:

My 17" Sony monitor measures 14.625" x 8.875", which works out to an aspect ratio of ~1.65:1. That isn't too far from its pixel dimensions of 1280 x 768 which would be 1.67:1 however.

My 22" Samsung is 19.25" x 10.875" which would be 1.77:1, pretty close to the pixel dimensions of 1280 x 720 which would be 1.78:1.

However my impression is that both screens overscan about the same (~2%), so the 17" monitor is squashing things a little to fit. The image certainly looks more like "widescreen" on the 22" screen at 1.77:1.
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-Z1 / HDR-FX1

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:59 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network