Using black pro mist filter on HDV a sin? at DVinfo.net

Greg Jacobson · February 7th, 2005, 09:17 PM

Would it make sense to use a black pro mist type filter on the FX1/Z1 if shooting in HDV mode? Does that kind of defeat the purpose of shooting in higher defintion in the first place?

Richard Alvarez · February 7th, 2005, 10:09 PM

All filters by definition 'degrade' the image. But 'degrade' it in what way? A creative way? Is it the look you want? Film has more definition than any HD camera, and ProMist filters are often used to achieve a particular look.

Megapixels, lines of definition... these are not the be all and end all for the measure of a 'good looking image'.

If it works, use it.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 7th, 2005, 10:31 PM

I think the ProMist looks GREAT on the front of the Z1. I've been playing with one over the weekend. It's definitely a different look, and of course, it's entirely independent of the resolution. In other words, no, it doesn't negate your greater resolution.

Brandon Greenlee · February 7th, 2005, 11:07 PM

What kind of look exactly does a Black Pro Mist give you?

I found a couple of things on it, but it really didn't help me get a good feel for what its doing to the image.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 7th, 2005, 11:09 PM

Just a softer, overall look. Make sure your sharpening is set to less than 10 for the best overall look. Use PLENTY of light to make this effect come on strong.

Brandon Greenlee · February 7th, 2005, 11:38 PM

Oh ok. Thanks for the help!

Greg Jacobson · February 8th, 2005, 01:17 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle : Just a softer, overall look. Make sure your sharpening is set to less than 10 for the best overall look. Use PLENTY of light to make this effect come on strong. -->>>

Douglas,

Which "type" of black pro mist are you using? Do you like the "Warm Black Pro Mist"?

Barry Green · February 8th, 2005, 01:42 AM

You have to be careful with diffusion filters on a camera with such a wide-angle lens -- it's possible to get the surface of the filter in focus in your shot.

Pro-mists, soft-nets, and filters like that have an imbedded pattern in them. Using a 4.5mm wide-angle lens, outdoors, at f/8 or so, will almost guarantee that the filter will be in focus, and the results won't look convincing at all! So when using something like a pro-mist, try to keep your aperture open, or keep zoomed in some, or (preferably) both.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 8th, 2005, 08:29 AM

yeah, I should have offered that. I tend to shoot on the wide aperture side because it helps me w/DOF, and so filter surface is never a problem. Keep in mind that I usually have big lights or nice outdoors.
I've got the Blackmist 3, I don't use the warm at all. I bought one with the straight Black Mist, but rarely use it for anything but training as an illustration tool.

Greg Jacobson · February 8th, 2005, 09:50 AM

Is there a particular brand of filter that is the best?

At NAB 2004 these guys were saying how their filters are better than other brands.

http://www.formatt.co.uk/glass/default.asp

By the way, I just picked up your Vegas 5 Editing Workshop :)

Carlos E. Martinez · February 8th, 2005, 01:07 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Greg Jacobson : Is there a particular brand of filter that is the best?

At NAB 2004 these guys were saying how their filters are better than other brands.

http://www.formatt.co.uk/glass/default.asp
-->>>

If I am not wrong Tiffen was the one the designed the black mist filters first. They are my first choice.

Formatt should be good too, so you may decide upon them on price terms, as glass quality is probably good on both.

Carlos

Brandon Greenlee · February 8th, 2005, 01:46 PM

In the XL1s I recently acquired I found a package containing a "Tiffen 72mm Black Pro-Mist 1/2 usa".

I looked it up and it looks like these filters came in 3 varying degrees of softening. They are labled Pro-Mist 1-3. However mine says 1/2. Anyone know what that means?

Thanks again.

Mikey Williams · October 21st, 2009, 09:17 AM

It's 1/2 the strength of the BPM 1.

Marcus Martell · October 21st, 2009, 01:32 PM

Straight out of the crave this post.......4 years

BTW very interesting thanks!

February 7th, 2005, 09:17 PM	#1
Greg Jacobson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New York Posts: 141	Using black pro mist filter on HDV a sin? Would it make sense to use a black pro mist type filter on the FX1/Z1 if shooting in HDV mode? Does that kind of defeat the purpose of shooting in higher defintion in the first place?

February 7th, 2005, 10:31 PM	#3
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	I think the ProMist looks GREAT on the front of the Z1. I've been playing with one over the weekend. It's definitely a different look, and of course, it's entirely independent of the resolution. In other words, no, it doesn't negate your greater resolution. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 7th, 2005, 11:07 PM	#4
Brandon Greenlee Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: North Alabama Posts: 242	What kind of look exactly does a Black Pro Mist give you? I found a couple of things on it, but it really didn't help me get a good feel for what its doing to the image. __________________ Brandon Greenlee

February 7th, 2005, 11:09 PM	#5
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Just a softer, overall look. Make sure your sharpening is set to less than 10 for the best overall look. Use PLENTY of light to make this effect come on strong. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 7th, 2005, 11:38 PM	#6
Brandon Greenlee Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: North Alabama Posts: 242	Oh ok. Thanks for the help! __________________ Brandon Greenlee

February 7th, 2005, 10:09 PM	#2
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	All filters by definition 'degrade' the image. But 'degrade' it in what way? A creative way? Is it the look you want? Film has more definition than any HD camera, and ProMist filters are often used to achieve a particular look. Megapixels, lines of definition... these are not the be all and end all for the measure of a 'good looking image'. If it works, use it.

February 8th, 2005, 01:17 AM	#7
Greg Jacobson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New York Posts: 141	<<<-- Originally posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle : Just a softer, overall look. Make sure your sharpening is set to less than 10 for the best overall look. Use PLENTY of light to make this effect come on strong. -->>> Douglas, Which "type" of black pro mist are you using? Do you like the "Warm Black Pro Mist"?

February 8th, 2005, 01:42 AM	#8
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	You have to be careful with diffusion filters on a camera with such a wide-angle lens -- it's possible to get the surface of the filter in focus in your shot. Pro-mists, soft-nets, and filters like that have an imbedded pattern in them. Using a 4.5mm wide-angle lens, outdoors, at f/8 or so, will almost guarantee that the filter will be in focus, and the results won't look convincing at all! So when using something like a pro-mist, try to keep your aperture open, or keep zoomed in some, or (preferably) both.

February 8th, 2005, 08:29 AM	#9
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	yeah, I should have offered that. I tend to shoot on the wide aperture side because it helps me w/DOF, and so filter surface is never a problem. Keep in mind that I usually have big lights or nice outdoors. I've got the Blackmist 3, I don't use the warm at all. I bought one with the straight Black Mist, but rarely use it for anything but training as an illustration tool. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 8th, 2005, 09:50 AM	#10
Greg Jacobson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New York Posts: 141	Is there a particular brand of filter that is the best? At NAB 2004 these guys were saying how their filters are better than other brands. http://www.formatt.co.uk/glass/default.asp By the way, I just picked up your Vegas 5 Editing Workshop :)

February 8th, 2005, 01:07 PM	#11
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	<<<-- Originally posted by Greg Jacobson : Is there a particular brand of filter that is the best? At NAB 2004 these guys were saying how their filters are better than other brands. http://www.formatt.co.uk/glass/default.asp -->>> If I am not wrong Tiffen was the one the designed the black mist filters first. They are my first choice. Formatt should be good too, so you may decide upon them on price terms, as glass quality is probably good on both. Carlos

February 8th, 2005, 01:46 PM	#12
Brandon Greenlee Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: North Alabama Posts: 242	In the XL1s I recently acquired I found a package containing a "Tiffen 72mm Black Pro-Mist 1/2 usa". I looked it up and it looks like these filters came in 3 varying degrees of softening. They are labled Pro-Mist 1-3. However mine says 1/2. Anyone know what that means? Thanks again. __________________ Brandon Greenlee

October 21st, 2009, 09:17 AM	#13
Mikey Williams Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Squamish, BC, Canada Posts: 28	It's 1/2 the strength of the BPM 1. __________________ Mikey Williams Down To Earth Productions

October 21st, 2009, 01:32 PM	#14
Marcus Martell Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: spain Posts: 1,202	Straight out of the crave this post.......4 years BTW very interesting thanks!