Black stretch to increase lattitude? Main difference between FX1 and Z1? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-Z1 / HDR-FX1

Sony HVR-Z1 / HDR-FX1
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CCD HDV camcorder.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 10th, 2005, 09:14 AM   #1
Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Santiago, Chile
Posts: 932
Black stretch to increase lattitude? Main difference between FX1 and Z1?

Today my local Sony rep read an article I wrote which mentioned the FX1/Z1 and it's shortcomings, one of which I understand is lattitude. This comes from comparison pictures I have seen of the FX1 versus XL2 and DVX100. He quickly wrote me a note suggesting that, because the Z1 has configurable black stretch, lattitude can be enhanced. Is this to be believed?

By the way if you can read spanish the article is located at http://www.canal.cl/0004.htm.
__________________
Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.
Ignacio Rodriguez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2005, 09:28 AM   #2
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,707
Can you translate it for us?
__________________
Christopher C. Murphy
Director, Producer, Writer
Christopher C. Murphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2005, 09:29 AM   #3
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Stockton, UT
Posts: 5,648
Not quite to be believed, no.
Black stretch will give the *appearance* of greater latitude, but it doesn't in fact, give you greater latitude. Black stretch is wonderful in low light or where you've got lots of dynamic range requirement. I've got shots of cheerleaders with bright halogens directly behind them, and while the halogens are not blown out to the point of zero detail, the cheerleader is lit well. Then surrounding her is black night sky. Without black stretch, I've got gradients appearing in the sky, but with black stretch on, the sky is a smooth, noise-free sky in the middle of some very extreme colors and luma values.
One caution of black stretch, it does tend to slightly desaturate very rich colors. I particularly noticed it in reds and middle blues.
__________________
Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot
Author, producer, composer
Certified Sony Vegas Trainer
http://www.vasst.com
Douglas Spotted Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2005, 09:37 AM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 186
Spot,

If you grade the desatuated colors in post does it increase noise?

David
David Cherniack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2005, 09:56 AM   #5
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Stockton, UT
Posts: 5,648
No, but that's commenting with my eye, not commenting based on a scope. The stuff I'm talking about though, we projected on to a 20' screen, and still were just blown away by the quality.
__________________
Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot
Author, producer, composer
Certified Sony Vegas Trainer
http://www.vasst.com
Douglas Spotted Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2005, 10:26 AM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 186
So would you recommend black stretch for alll or most low light shooting?
David Cherniack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2005, 10:39 AM   #7
Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Santiago, Chile
Posts: 932
> Black stretch will give the *appearance* of greater latitude,
> but it doesn't in fact, give you greater latitude.

I see. Well I don't see... but I understand. So it's more like a gamma control... that you can use in the camera to control the image much as you would in post, with the advantage of doing it before compression. But it will not get more information into the image, formally speaking, right?

> Can you translate it for us?

I could translate the article, but most of what is mentioned in it is stuff that has been extensively discussed in the forum and covered in much more detail by Steve Mullen and others. It's an article intended for a less educated audience. I wrote as a way to impress my potential clients <grin>.

I do express my opinion about the shorcomings I see in FX1/Z1 comparing it to the DVX100, XL2 and PD170. Mainly low-light response, which is an issue with documentary work of the type I do, where you don't carry around lighting. I use a PDX10 so I know how a pain it can be to not have enough sensitivity, and I want my next cam to be far more sensitive than the PDX10, which the FX1/Z1 is not.

I also mention the potential problems with tape drops and the MPEG2 GOP structure. This is scary stuff and I don't know if the new Sony tapes will be that much better.

But the article doesn't slam the camera. It actually talks about how the introduction of HDV can be as important as the introduction of DV. Whatever the shortcomings, I think the FX1/Z1 will be of great use in the hands of indie filmakers.

I do not mention it in the article, but I think we owe the camera's quality and price point to JVC who really scared Sony into rushing it to market.
__________________
Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.
Ignacio Rodriguez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2005, 10:43 AM   #8
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 150
Translated link:

http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools
Mike Tiffee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2005, 10:50 AM   #9
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,707
Cool, thanks..
__________________
Christopher C. Murphy
Director, Producer, Writer
Christopher C. Murphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2005, 10:54 AM   #10
Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Santiago, Chile
Posts: 932
The translation is so weird to read!

I see now that there is a mistake in the article: the loss of a GOP should of course result in the loss of half a second, not a full second.
__________________
Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.
Ignacio Rodriguez is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-Z1 / HDR-FX1

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:53 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network