Living in US & Shooting 50i(Pal) on my Z1 just doesn't sit well with me.... at DVinfo.net

Shannon Rawls · February 10th, 2005, 01:03 PM

.....am I alone??

I mean, yes, I have read the hundreds of posts all over the place. "If you want to deinterlace, if you want to be progressive, if you want to get a so-called 'film-look' then you better Shoot CF25, Shoot 50i, Shoot PAL, blah blah blah... Yea, I heard all that.

but...

(shakin my head)

I dunno guys *shrugging shoulders* I just can't see myself rebooting my Z1 to the 50i standard and shooting a movie that cost me thousands of dollars.

Myabe it's just my naivety kicking in. But I feel so warm and fuzzy comfortable when I am in my homeland setting of 60i (or cf30 or cf24 if need be)

For instance, when I did reboot my Z1 to PAL that one time to check it out, I noticed the LCD screen became instantly ugly. The video was stretched the menu was stretched, and things just didn't fit right. When I went back to NTSC....all is well.

Am I alone in this?

- Shannon W. Rawls, Damn Proud American *smile*

Graham Jones · February 10th, 2005, 01:15 PM

What's your final format?

NTSC VIDEO (such as DVDs): shoot NTSC

35MM: shoot PAL

BOTH: shoot PAL

NOT SURE: shoot NTSC

Just my opinion.

Filip Kovcin · February 10th, 2005, 01:33 PM

i tryed similar thing with Z1, but in pal country - with monitor which is cappable to deliver BOTH ntsc and pal.

no problems.

also tryed as downconverted to dv signal - both ntsc and pal on sony TV set wich is also cappable to deliver SD NTSC. no problems.

but

when i went to huge electronics/tv shop - tryed with different crt/plasma/lcd/projection sets - strange things occured on some (usually cheaper) models. but most of them worked without problem but with different final effect. (the picture itself looked on some models/brands much better then on others).

filip

Victor Muh · February 10th, 2005, 03:48 PM

Did you say homeland?

Victor Muh · February 10th, 2005, 03:59 PM

Anyhow, I'm planning a trip to L.A. just to buy the Z1 to bring back to Paris where I will be shooting exclusively PAL... unless there's an American client that wants NTSC.

Are you saying that the LCD screens on the U.S. models are different than the European models?

Greg Jacobson · February 10th, 2005, 05:02 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Victor Muh : Anyhow, I'm planning a trip to L.A. just to buy the Z1 to bring back to Paris where I will be shooting exclusively PAL... unless there's an American client that wants NTSC.

Are you saying that the LCD screens on the U.S. models are different than the European models? -->>>

Buy it from NY and have it shipped to LA so you can avoid sales tax.

Victor Muh · February 10th, 2005, 05:08 PM

Exactly!

Or Oregon... from Zotz... if they ever get it in stock:-(

I want to support the sponsors, but I have my limits!

Nate Weaver · February 10th, 2005, 05:22 PM

I would view the situation like I do shooting 24PA with the DVX...

I never shoot anything in that format unless I KNOW it's going through Final Cut Pro. Nobody wants to watch 24PA straight.

So likewise, if I know I'm shooting to edit, (which is 99% of the time), then I should not worry about shooting PAL. It is a little disconcerting, but I know how I've worked with the DVX for the last two years so there should be no worries.

Rob Lohman · February 11th, 2005, 04:14 AM

I always recommend you shoot in the standard native to your
country, saves a lot of hassle. The camera has a high resolution,
and it seems that even for filmout the companies providing this
service work with 60i all the time (most still prefer it, or so I hear),
so all should be fine. If you are going to do a film out it is better
to do some tests and thoroughly discuss this with your film out
lab anyways.

Shannon Rawls · February 11th, 2005, 09:42 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : I always recommend you shoot in the standard native to your
country, saves a lot of hassle. The camera has a high resolution,
and it seems that even for filmout the companies providing this
service work with 60i all the time (most still prefer it, or so I hear),
so all should be fine. If you are going to do a film out it is better
to do some tests and thoroughly discuss this with your film out
lab anyways. -->>>

I don't plan on doing any Film-Outs. If I were....i'd probably....ummmm....shoot on film. (call me crazy)

But Rob, I feel you man. It just seems easier to continue driving on the left side of my car, even though a right-side drive may be better for parallel parking in the US. In my opion. *smile*

- ShannonRawls.com

Graham Jones · February 11th, 2005, 09:57 AM

Well if no film out is planned stay native! Any manipulation, do it in post..

Mark Kubat · February 11th, 2005, 10:56 AM

but not enough to go through the hassle, ultimately.

We shot test setup - side by side with two cams: one shooting 60i, one shooting 50i, identical settings otherwise...

50i downconvert gives ever so slight visual edge over 60i but really, only to trained eye who is looking for it - not enough to justify going through hassle of not being able to immediately review footage on NTSC tv etc.

The whole 10-less interlaced frames per second thing doesn't seem to mean a lot ultimately... at least from what we've seen so far...

60i deinterlaced in Premiere Pro with Mainconcept Mpeg-pro HD v.1.05 (supporting Sony HDV) gives a very nice filmic effect. Couple this with Magic Bullet Editors and anybody wanting to use Sony HDV to mimic the look of film can do a pretty good job in 60i... You're also ready as Rob points out in case you decide to go big and ship out to a post house to do some work for you... just keep that shutter locked at 1/60! Or so they say.

Carlos E. Martinez · February 11th, 2005, 11:13 AM

You should only shoot PAL in an NTSC country if you are going to film.

Transfer to film process from PAL is cheaper than from NTSC. Also on pan or travelling situations you will have much less danger of having stroboscopic effects.

Carlos

Hans van Turnhout · March 9th, 2005, 06:11 PM

In Sweden HVR-Z1 has a price tag of some USD 9,000+ whilst in US the price tag seem to be less than USD 5,000. Since I'm going to NY late next month I'm considering to buy the HVR-Z1U version. Came across this post where Shannon Rawls reports that the LCD when in PAL-mode (which I'll use) is "ugly, video and menu stretched and things don't fit right." This worries me and I wonder if anyone else using the HVR-Z1U version have experienced the same behavior when in PAL mode.

Regards

Hans

Shannon Rawls · March 9th, 2005, 07:04 PM

Don't worry yourself. it's A-OK. get it, you'll be just fine. The picture is fine. its the "text" that get skinnerier.

Don't worry...get the Z1U

February 10th, 2005, 01:03 PM	#1
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	Living in US & Shooting 50i(Pal) on my Z1 just doesn't sit well with me.... .....am I alone?? I mean, yes, I have read the hundreds of posts all over the place. "If you want to deinterlace, if you want to be progressive, if you want to get a so-called 'film-look' then you better Shoot CF25, Shoot 50i, Shoot PAL, blah blah blah... Yea, I heard all that. but... (shakin my head) I dunno guys shrugging shoulders I just can't see myself rebooting my Z1 to the 50i standard and shooting a movie that cost me thousands of dollars. Myabe it's just my naivety kicking in. But I feel so warm and fuzzy comfortable when I am in my homeland setting of 60i (or cf30 or cf24 if need be) For instance, when I did reboot my Z1 to PAL that one time to check it out, I noticed the LCD screen became instantly ugly. The video was stretched the menu was stretched, and things just didn't fit right. When I went back to NTSC....all is well. Am I alone in this? - Shannon W. Rawls, Damn Proud American smile

February 10th, 2005, 01:15 PM	#2
Graham Jones Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 489	What's your final format? NTSC VIDEO (such as DVDs): shoot NTSC 35MM: shoot PAL BOTH: shoot PAL NOT SURE: shoot NTSC Just my opinion. __________________ www.irishfilmmaker.com

February 10th, 2005, 01:33 PM	#3
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	i tryed similar thing with Z1, but in pal country - with monitor which is cappable to deliver BOTH ntsc and pal. no problems. also tryed as downconverted to dv signal - both ntsc and pal on sony TV set wich is also cappable to deliver SD NTSC. no problems. but when i went to huge electronics/tv shop - tryed with different crt/plasma/lcd/projection sets - strange things occured on some (usually cheaper) models. but most of them worked without problem but with different final effect. (the picture itself looked on some models/brands much better then on others). filip __________________ in kino (sic!) veritas

February 10th, 2005, 03:48 PM	#4
Victor Muh Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Paris, France Posts: 126	Did you say homeland? __________________ Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. - Albert Einstein http://advaloreminternational.com

February 10th, 2005, 03:59 PM	#5
Victor Muh Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Paris, France Posts: 126	Anyhow, I'm planning a trip to L.A. just to buy the Z1 to bring back to Paris where I will be shooting exclusively PAL... unless there's an American client that wants NTSC. Are you saying that the LCD screens on the U.S. models are different than the European models? __________________ Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. - Albert Einstein http://advaloreminternational.com

February 10th, 2005, 05:02 PM	#6
Greg Jacobson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New York Posts: 141	<<<-- Originally posted by Victor Muh : Anyhow, I'm planning a trip to L.A. just to buy the Z1 to bring back to Paris where I will be shooting exclusively PAL... unless there's an American client that wants NTSC. Are you saying that the LCD screens on the U.S. models are different than the European models? -->>> Buy it from NY and have it shipped to LA so you can avoid sales tax.

February 10th, 2005, 05:08 PM	#7
Victor Muh Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Paris, France Posts: 126	Exactly! Or Oregon... from Zotz... if they ever get it in stock:-( I want to support the sponsors, but I have my limits! __________________ Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. - Albert Einstein http://advaloreminternational.com

February 10th, 2005, 05:22 PM	#8
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	I would view the situation like I do shooting 24PA with the DVX... I never shoot anything in that format unless I KNOW it's going through Final Cut Pro. Nobody wants to watch 24PA straight. So likewise, if I know I'm shooting to edit, (which is 99% of the time), then I should not worry about shooting PAL. It is a little disconcerting, but I know how I've worked with the DVX for the last two years so there should be no worries.

February 11th, 2005, 04:14 AM	#9
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I always recommend you shoot in the standard native to your country, saves a lot of hassle. The camera has a high resolution, and it seems that even for filmout the companies providing this service work with 60i all the time (most still prefer it, or so I hear), so all should be fine. If you are going to do a film out it is better to do some tests and thoroughly discuss this with your film out lab anyways. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 11th, 2005, 09:42 AM	#10
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : I always recommend you shoot in the standard native to your country, saves a lot of hassle. The camera has a high resolution, and it seems that even for filmout the companies providing this service work with 60i all the time (most still prefer it, or so I hear), so all should be fine. If you are going to do a film out it is better to do some tests and thoroughly discuss this with your film out lab anyways. -->>> I don't plan on doing any Film-Outs. If I were....i'd probably....ummmm....shoot on film. (call me crazy) But Rob, I feel you man. It just seems easier to continue driving on the left side of my car, even though a right-side drive may be better for parallel parking in the US. In my opion. smile - ShannonRawls.com

February 11th, 2005, 09:57 AM	#11
Graham Jones Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 489	Well if no film out is planned stay native! Any manipulation, do it in post.. __________________ www.irishfilmmaker.com

February 11th, 2005, 10:56 AM	#12
Mark Kubat Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 375	50i is only ever so slightly better... but not enough to go through the hassle, ultimately. We shot test setup - side by side with two cams: one shooting 60i, one shooting 50i, identical settings otherwise... 50i downconvert gives ever so slight visual edge over 60i but really, only to trained eye who is looking for it - not enough to justify going through hassle of not being able to immediately review footage on NTSC tv etc. The whole 10-less interlaced frames per second thing doesn't seem to mean a lot ultimately... at least from what we've seen so far... 60i deinterlaced in Premiere Pro with Mainconcept Mpeg-pro HD v.1.05 (supporting Sony HDV) gives a very nice filmic effect. Couple this with Magic Bullet Editors and anybody wanting to use Sony HDV to mimic the look of film can do a pretty good job in 60i... You're also ready as Rob points out in case you decide to go big and ship out to a post house to do some work for you... just keep that shutter locked at 1/60! Or so they say.

February 11th, 2005, 11:13 AM	#13
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	You should only shoot PAL in an NTSC country if you are going to film. Transfer to film process from PAL is cheaper than from NTSC. Also on pan or travelling situations you will have much less danger of having stroboscopic effects. Carlos

March 9th, 2005, 06:11 PM	#14
Hans van Turnhout Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 70	In Sweden HVR-Z1 has a price tag of some USD 9,000+ whilst in US the price tag seem to be less than USD 5,000. Since I'm going to NY late next month I'm considering to buy the HVR-Z1U version. Came across this post where Shannon Rawls reports that the LCD when in PAL-mode (which I'll use) is "ugly, video and menu stretched and things don't fit right." This worries me and I wonder if anyone else using the HVR-Z1U version have experienced the same behavior when in PAL mode. Regards Hans

March 9th, 2005, 07:04 PM	#15
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	Don't worry yourself. it's A-OK. get it, you'll be just fine. The picture is fine. its the "text" that get skinnerier. Don't worry...get the Z1U