Sony HVR-Z1U 24fps Simple Question at DVinfo.net

Hse Kha · February 17th, 2005, 10:26 PM

I had the FX1 a couple of months ago and loved it, BUT it's 24fps mode was fake. Basically it was the 30fps mode with 6 frames chopped out every second. Unusable.

So my simple question is this - can the Z1U do true 24fps? I realize that it will be encoded as 60i with 3:2 telecine encoding.

So can it do it just like the Panasonic DVX100 and Canon XL2?

Thanks!

Chris Hurd · February 17th, 2005, 10:36 PM

Sorry, no difference.

Shannon Rawls · February 18th, 2005, 03:13 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Hse Kha : I had the FX1 a couple of months ago and loved it, BUT it's 24fps mode was fake. Unusable. -->>>

MMMmmmm, I wouldn't go so far as to say that.

I think it's EXTREMELY usuable, you just have to know 'how' to use it. Is it edible fresh out the freezer like the DVX is.....heck no. With the Sony cameras, you have to do some COOKIN' to make it taste right....but when it's finished, boy oh boy does it taste good.

What platform do you edit in? PC or MAC?

- ShannonRawls.com

Hse Kha · February 18th, 2005, 08:14 AM

Chris - Well, that is a big tragedy. What annoys me it not that they do NOT have it, but that they have the fake and misleading mode. It is false advertising!

Shannon - How can it be of any use? You are better of using 60i and converting to 24fps in post! The native "24fps" as mentioned before loses complete frames! It is unwatchable!

Oh well, I guess that one can shoot progessive in PAL mode at 25fps and slow it to 24fps it the expense of audio pitch change... It does shoot 25fps right?

Thanks for the info guys...

BTW I use PC.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 18th, 2005, 09:54 AM

HSE,
NOwhere did Sony say it was 24p. In fact, Sony takes great pains to call it CineFrame 24. I guess you could call it fake if you want, but since they don't call it "true" 24, I'm not sure how you could make the argument than it's "false" 24.

It's a look. No different than how Panasonic has built in Magic Bullet looks. They're not real film either. So, is it a "fake" film look in the Panny? 24p is an artistic choice, and depending on your choice of NLE, it can be made to look good, as Shannon has pointed out and as I've been experimenting with.
If you shoot at 25 and drop the speed by 4%, it does nothing to the sound, unless you're working with a poor quality editor. No pitch change at all if you work in Sony Vegas, unless you want it to change pitch.

Chris Hurd · February 18th, 2005, 11:04 AM

Hse,

<< What annoys me it not that they do NOT have it, but that they have the fake and misleading mode. It is false advertising! >>

There's nothing false or misleading about it. Sony does not advertise this camcorder as progressive scan, in fact, nowhere in any Sony literature will you see the term progressive scan. It's no secret whatsoever that its CCDs are not progressive scan chips. However, they're able to emulate progressive scan to a degree, and this emulation (that is, CineFrame) is perhaps best described as "pseudo progressive," just like Frame Movie mode on some Pasonic camcorders (and some Canons as well, since Canon has a license to use it). Hope this helps,

February 17th, 2005, 10:26 PM	#1
Hse Kha Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New England Posts: 195	Sony HVR-Z1U 24fps Simple Question I had the FX1 a couple of months ago and loved it, BUT it's 24fps mode was fake. Basically it was the 30fps mode with 6 frames chopped out every second. Unusable. So my simple question is this - can the Z1U do true 24fps? I realize that it will be encoded as 60i with 3:2 telecine encoding. So can it do it just like the Panasonic DVX100 and Canon XL2? Thanks!

February 17th, 2005, 10:36 PM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Sorry, no difference. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 18th, 2005, 03:13 AM	#3
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	Re: Sony HVR-Z1U 24fps Simple Question <<<-- Originally posted by Hse Kha : I had the FX1 a couple of months ago and loved it, BUT it's 24fps mode was fake. Unusable. -->>> MMMmmmm, I wouldn't go so far as to say that. I think it's EXTREMELY usuable, you just have to know 'how' to use it. Is it edible fresh out the freezer like the DVX is.....heck no. With the Sony cameras, you have to do some COOKIN' to make it taste right....but when it's finished, boy oh boy does it taste good. What platform do you edit in? PC or MAC? - ShannonRawls.com

February 18th, 2005, 09:54 AM	#5
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	HSE, NOwhere did Sony say it was 24p. In fact, Sony takes great pains to call it CineFrame 24. I guess you could call it fake if you want, but since they don't call it "true" 24, I'm not sure how you could make the argument than it's "false" 24. It's a look. No different than how Panasonic has built in Magic Bullet looks. They're not real film either. So, is it a "fake" film look in the Panny? 24p is an artistic choice, and depending on your choice of NLE, it can be made to look good, as Shannon has pointed out and as I've been experimenting with. If you shoot at 25 and drop the speed by 4%, it does nothing to the sound, unless you're working with a poor quality editor. No pitch change at all if you work in Sony Vegas, unless you want it to change pitch. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 18th, 2005, 11:04 AM	#6
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Hse, << What annoys me it not that they do NOT have it, but that they have the fake and misleading mode. It is false advertising! >> There's nothing false or misleading about it. Sony does not advertise this camcorder as progressive scan, in fact, nowhere in any Sony literature will you see the term progressive scan. It's no secret whatsoever that its CCDs are not progressive scan chips. However, they're able to emulate progressive scan to a degree, and this emulation (that is, CineFrame) is perhaps best described as "pseudo progressive," just like Frame Movie mode on some Pasonic camcorders (and some Canons as well, since Canon has a license to use it). Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 18th, 2005, 08:14 AM	#4
Hse Kha Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New England Posts: 195	Chris - Well, that is a big tragedy. What annoys me it not that they do NOT have it, but that they have the fake and misleading mode. It is false advertising! Shannon - How can it be of any use? You are better of using 60i and converting to 24fps in post! The native "24fps" as mentioned before loses complete frames! It is unwatchable! Oh well, I guess that one can shoot progessive in PAL mode at 25fps and slow it to 24fps it the expense of audio pitch change... It does shoot 25fps right? Thanks for the info guys... BTW I use PC.