CF30 is pretty mind-blowing! at DVinfo.net

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Sony HVR-Z1 / HDR-FX1
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CCD HDV camcorder.


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Old March 14th, 2005, 02:16 AM   #1
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CF30 is pretty mind-blowing!

Just finished the 2nd of two music videos today (last week was a dance hall reggae joint and this weekend was an experimental rock one). Both are planned to be aired on Cable TV and go to DVD for showing off, so I had the DP's shoot in CF30 for better TV broadcasting.

I have no audio reports to make because both shoots were MOS with music playback only. We shot in HD to basically increase the "Production Value" and the bragging rights for the Director/DP's to say they shot in HD and so they can always make an HD master if they wish. When I told the directors of both videos that the downconversion would look better then recording in DV mode on this or another camera they were like "Uhhhhhh, yea right Shannon". I said, "OK, just wait and see."

Now....back to this CF30 thing.......I knew it was nice, but DAYUMM.....have you guys seen some of this CF30 stuff? I mean WOW. The G&E dept. lit both videos pretty good using HMI's on both shoots and all kindsa color gels and flags and scrims and bounces and what not.

The picture was nice on the Z1U monitor, but it wasn't until we captured the correctly lit footage that I became THE MAN! *smile*

Ok, check it.....how many of you guys watch Music Videos on Cable (BET or MTV)?? You know, the booty shakin, glossy painted bentley's & hummers with 30" rims and rock bands with glassy colors and smooth buttery skin babes 1/2 naked in the nightclub type videos.

Notice that 'hyper-real' look that makes everybody skintone glow wonderfully and gleam in the light while the blacks are pure black and the greens are pure green and all that.

Yea, it's sorta like that!

One of the videos didn't have a stylist, so the actors came in ther own clothing, and someone wore a BRIGHT RED shirt (a big no-no for DV). Well, guess what...that bright red shirt...looked, well...bright red. (not overbearing and not glowing like a neon sign) Like it would have if we shot on film!!! I am going to run some tests on colors as a result of this, because it seems that the Bright Red that I would forbid people to wear when shooting DV, is now allowable in HDV. crazzzy!

As we watched the footage on a regular TV (for raggae) and a RGB projector & 8ft screen (for rock) while capturing the footage to MAC computers it was crazy to see it. Talk about pleasing a client!!!! You would think I just saved earth from a meteor attack they way they were happy after each shoot.

It would be hard-pressed for someone to be able to tell if this CF30 was Film or Video. Honestly, I can get away with CF30 in a narrative movie and just lie and "TELL" people that it was 24p, and they would be like "wow, those 24p cameras are Cooooool!" (however, since I know better, I still like CF24 better)

I'm a PC guy, so I sat back and let the MAC guys capture everything. The rock video guy decided to use iMovie to capture the footage because he said he likes to see real-time video during capture rather then 15fps on FCPHD on his MAC monitor. I don't know what he's talking about, i'm sure FCP shows a real-time video preview while capturing, but I didn't get into it...I don't know much about MAC's anymore and didn't want to look like an idiot talking about something i didn't know.
But what he did while capturing it with iMovie, he stuck his nose damn-near on the screen trying to look super closely to the footage as it captured. And he said, and I quote, "Damn....I can't see any pixels like I normally do on other cameras I capture with" I asked "What are you talking about man??" He replied "When I capture from DVX or XL or regular DV cams, I can see the blocks when capturing. It's hard to explain shannon, just trust me. However, on your camera, I can't see shit. It's like the pixels are super tight. It's amazing. How much did you pay for this camera again? I may have to get me one of these."

ha!

Anyhow, just thought i'd tell you guys about how a Slave became more powerful then the emperor of Rome (using CF30)! *smile*

P.S.
I have 2 horror films and one drama coming up in the next 3 weeks that will be shot in CF24. I'll be sure to tell you how they go.

gone!

- ShannonRawls.com

I need to pick up 1 or 2 more Z1's but everybody is sold out! It's all good, that gives me a reason to see what's up with JVC and Panasonic. However, I can tell you this ...... if they cost much more then the Z1 does by the time they come out.....I will stick with Sony fa'sho'! Hell, by then, the Z1 will probably be $3900 bucks!
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Old March 14th, 2005, 04:52 AM   #2
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Sounds like you're having a real blast with your cam Shannon.

----------------->
I need to pick up 1 or 2 more Z1's but everybody is sold out! It's all good, that gives me a reason to see what's up with JVC and Panasonic. However, I can tell you this ...... if they cost much more then the Z1 does by the time they come out.....I will stick with Sony fa'sho'! Hell, by then, the Z1 will probably be $3900 bucks!
<------------------------


I doubt a new Panny (with P2 cards etc) will be anywhere near a Z1 in price :)


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Old March 14th, 2005, 07:23 AM   #3
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Shannon, is giving great details about his "real world" shoots! Thanks man!

Question: Since you're shooting in CF30..does that mean your going to edit in 29.97? I haven't investigated that feature yet since I've seen so many conflicting reports regarding anything other than 60i.

Thanks for the detailed post!
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Old March 14th, 2005, 07:56 AM   #4
 
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Christopher, what have you heard about CF 30 being a problem? It works great, and as Shannon mentions, it's a beautiful image. It's by far my favorite mode in the cam.
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Old March 14th, 2005, 08:01 AM   #5
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I have not played with the CF30 settings yet. Before I start, if you guys would be so kind to specifiy what kind of footage benefits most from that setting? Is it better for rapid movement? Or is it just better in general, and for what reason?

It would be helpful to get pointed in the right direction before I start so I know what to look for.

I need to get as experienced as I can before my trip to Greece. No chance to reshoot, ya know?

Thanks,
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Old March 14th, 2005, 08:05 AM   #6
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Douglas,

I read that anything other 60i has motion problems. I've only shot in 60i, so I can't say from experience just yet how the others hold up. I wish I had time to shoot and capture all modes, but not yet.

The 60i mode is borderline for me...on rapid motion I can see drag. But, it's a trade off like anything. Although, for my main purposes (mostly tripod shots) the drap isn't bad. If I were shooting sports again I would probably opt for a different camera. That's just my opinion!
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Old March 14th, 2005, 08:18 AM   #7
 
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We shot just over 3 hours of very intense motocross action between Sat and Sunday, two Z1's on the shoot, most of it handheld. Everything was shot CF30, and it looks terrific. I'm a little disappointed in the image of the second cam, because the aperture was too wide and shutter speed too high, washing colors out a little, but it was a very weird day for light with clouds coming and going.
Needless to say, the CF30 is the mode I really prefer. Of course, it's still 60i, but it has a look that is sharp, but very smooth and cinematic at the same time.
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Old March 14th, 2005, 08:21 AM   #8
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Hey Douglas, I'm going to try CF30 next...you guys convinced me.

Thanks!
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Old March 14th, 2005, 09:11 AM   #9
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I thought I read that using one of the CF modes gives you decreased resolution.

Of course, I'm also an idiot so who knows if I just made that up.

Is CF30 still the same image quality as plain ol' 60i? Since DSE actually said that it's still 60i, this is what got me to wonder.
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Old March 14th, 2005, 10:08 AM   #10
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Yeah, the CF30 mode has decreased resolution... However, it's still at least 2x the resolution of DV (i.e., it's at least 1440x540), and the workflow is dead easy given that the output is effectively 30p. One may also suspect it's easier on the compression algorithms, but that's too hard to test.

For pretty much any narrative project I'd use CF30 or CF24, while for stills and documentaries I'd use 60i with adaptive deinterlace.
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Old March 14th, 2005, 10:12 AM   #11
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Hi guys

I know that you are talking about the Z1.. and I have a PAL FX1 but .....
all the talk about CF 30 is based around NTSC ..right?

And I see that the NTSC spec FX1 has CF 30 instead of the CF25 on my camera..

Does the result on my camera in CF 25 give the same result as the CF 30 or is this one of the differences between the two models?

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Old March 14th, 2005, 11:47 AM   #12
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>>Does the result on my camera in CF 25 give the same result as the CF 30 or is this one of the differences between the two models?<<

The main difference is the frame-rate... The expected resolution is the same. Most would say CF25 gives a better result (less-compressed and more film-like) than CF30. It's just us NTSC people don't have a choice, or, if you're Shannon, don't like shooting in PAL when most people in the USA only have NTSC equipment.
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Old March 14th, 2005, 02:36 PM   #13
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Shannon - I note the diffference between the response your post has received here and on another HDV forum.

Obviously people here actually USE the cameras instead of just referring to technical details!
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Old March 14th, 2005, 02:50 PM   #14
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I was wondering how these cameras would fair up so I think I may be buying a few for a DVD line I am planning.
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Old March 14th, 2005, 03:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Does the result on my camera in CF 25 give the same result as the CF 30 or is this one of the differences between the two models?
CF25 is basically the same thing as CF30, except at 25 frames per second instead of 30. CF25 on a 50i HDTV would actually give a more "filmlike" look than CF30 on a 1080/60i HDTV. Try it, you'll like it.

Murph, didn't you have an HD1 or HD10 before? CF30 gives an identical motion signature to 30P on the HD1/HD10.
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