I Hate When People Refer to the New Panasonic & JVC HD Cams as the Z1 Killer!!!

[Kurth Bousman]

>The next person who starts a "Camera Killer" thread or "My Apple blows away your Orange" thread will be hunted down & their cat will have nasty things done upon it... :)<
Excuse me James , but I have 7 cats( and 7 dogs) - and I totally agree with all who say bring it on - the more cameras we have the better -the z1 is the best for the moment. If the panasonic is better , and it probably will be , then maybe sony will release a better z2 - that's how it works . However with apples - they are always the best. That's how that works. Sounds like you've watched Gummo one too many times mate. Kurth

[Greg Boston]

<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : For what it's worth, when the FX1 / Z1 first came out, it was referred to as "the XL2 killer," . -->>>

And yet, look how many RECENT posts are in the XL2 forum with new and regulars alike proclaiming ownership of brand new XL2's. Obviously, the FX1/Z1 combo didn't kill the XL2 sales. We won't know exactly how many sales of XL2 cams were lost to those who sought the new Sony cameras, but 'kill' the XL2 they have not.

-gb-

[Darrell Essex]

JAMES DARREN, you never know what Sony has up it's sleave. imagine what would happen if Sony showed up at NAB oh let's say with a model called Z1 pro. if it had the same lens as the HD-100, they re-did the firmware so it would do tru 24p (even if it was only 1280x720).
if they did this, they could kill JVC and PANASONIC's cameras in there tracks. there would be such a blood bath of people losing their jobs, it would force them to finally come up with something close to Sony's f900 camera at an affordable price just to stay competive. then we would all benifet.

SONY, ARE YOU LISTENING? HERE'S YOU CHANCE TO RULE THE HDV WORLD FOR YEARS TO COME .

Darrell
FIRST CINEMA PICTURES

[Luis Caffesse]

"if they did this, they could kill JVC and PANASONIC's cameras in there tracks."

Am I the only one that finds this ironic, given the topic of this thread?

:)

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

<<<-- Originally posted by Luis Caffesse : "if they did this, they could kill JVC and PANASONIC's cameras in there tracks."

Am I the only one that finds this ironic, given the topic of this thread?

:) -->>>


LOL

[Barry Green]

Yeah, that's pretty funny.

Seriously though, proclamations of one camera's "death" based on the announced (or unannounced) features of another are obviously way premature.

For example, even though we have some fairly detailed specifications on the new JVC, I can think of at least three compelling advantages that the Z1 offers that the JVC doesn't, for a certain market segment:

1) Autofocus. Love it or hate it, it's a great invention and there are times when you gotta have it. Not necessarily any big loss for drama/moviemakers, but for news or events or things like that, it's always better to have the option, especially when you're talking about HD resolution.

2) 1080 resolution vs. 720. If you're shooting for a 1080 broadcast, shooting 1080 in the first place is probably the better choice. NBC and CBS are 1080i, FOX and ABC are 720p.

and most importantly,

3) the "reality" look. From all I've read about the JVC, it only records at 720/24p and 720/30p. If it doesn't offer 720/60p, it's going to be at a huge disadvantage for a lot of types of shoots. News, events, reality tv, sports, all sorts of things are traditionally shot at the 60i/60p frame rate, and there will be lots of times where the 30p look just won't cut it, people will want and need that "immediacy" of 60i or 60p. Now, if the JVC offers 60p recording, that's one thing, but if it doesn't, that leaves a huge market segment open to the Z1.

[Luis Caffesse]

"Now, if the JVC offers 60p recording, that's one thing, but if it doesn't, that leaves a huge market segment open to the Z1."

The JVC does not offer 60p recording.
It will only stream 60p through the outputs, but won't lay it down to tape.

I don't think there has been any official word on 60i yet.

[Joe Carney]

What is great, is it appears we will have no less than 4 great cameras to choose from, depending on what you want to do.
I'm glad I can wait for another month to see which one I will get.

But what Spot said is correct, I remember how upset Sony pd150 owners were when the JVC DY300 came out. They couldn't bad mouth it enough. Really felt threatened.

I think the JVC will go for a different market than the FX1/Z1, but who knows. News people couldn't care less about 24p.

If it's well built and creates great looking video, I think it will be the next 'great thing' for Independent Movie makers (like myself) and possibly Wedding specialist who want to offer a 'film look' to their clients.....and no threat at all to anything else. Those wanting to shoot Music Videos will have a new best friend too. I can only imagine what the folks at PS Technik are waiting to do. I also guessing it will become the new 'it' camera for big name film directors who want something to take with them on vacation (720x24p for the cost of lunch? How can they resist, hehehe).

The Z1 is gonna own the live event and eng world whether I buy one or not. I'm hoping the JVC is the camera I've been waiting for all these years for the type of work I want to do.

I think we finally have a situation here of win win for everyone. Pretty rare, so enjoy it.

I'm sure the Panasonic folks will have a say in this too.

[Boyd Ostroff]

<<<-- Originally posted by James Darren : If it got in the low $4000 after the announcement or release that'd be great as I think the Z1 is more than good enough for my usage... -->>>

We're pretty much there already. Zotz Digital is offering a DVinfo special on the Z1 for $4,400 including UPS ground shipping http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=41608

[Robert Young]

"..the Z1 is gonna own the live event and ENG world..."

A very good point!! I'm sure all of the manufacturers have a target market in mind when they design these cameras. Many of the on line forums seem to have a high population of film makers looking specifically for 24p equipment. To read their posts for the last few years you would think that Sony never sold another PD 170 after the Pana DVX 100 was released. However, there is a very large market for small, broadcast quality, 60i ENG cameras, probably quite a bit larger than the film making group. My guess is that Sony has positioned the Z1 to go after the same market that the PD 150/170 has been so very successful in. It sure looks like Pana and JVC are going after the film makers. I mean, different strokes for different folks.
So, maybe there's not gonna be a "best camera", might just be a case of apples vs. oranges.
We shall see.

[Barry Green]

The JVC does not offer 60p recording.
It will only stream 60p through the outputs, but won't lay it down to tape.

Has that been confirmed? Just because we haven't read about it in the specifications that are released so far, doesn't mean it won't happen. HDV provides for 720/60p recording. They've already said the camera can output 720/60p on the component outputs. So why not allow recording it?

By all accounts there are still a good three or four months before the first one goes on sale -- plenty of time for new announcements and surprises. If JVC has definitively announced that it WILL NOT record 60p, then I think that was a big mistake on their part.

[Luis Caffesse]

Barry,

From this article in Broadcasting & Cable

"The new camera can't record 720p at 60 frames per second, but future models will. But the new ProHD is capable of outputting 720p/60 for live transmission or recording on an external video server.

I assumed that 'future models' meant some other camera in the future, not future production models of the forthcoming HD100.

[Barry Green]

Well, yeah, there it is.

What a mistake.

Well, I do hope they rectify that before the product ships. I mean for some uses 24p/30p-only may be fine, and I'm the biggest 24p advocate in the world, but seriously... there's still quite a large segment that will need a "reality" look.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

I find it kinda strange that JVC is even putting the HDV moniker on this cam. It's got PCM on separate tracks, capable of 60P on component out, and other variations on the format. But, it looks good. For me....I'm gonna be gunshy just because it says JVC on it, but that's an old prejudice that I need to drop. I'm quite sure it will be a decent cam. I can't figure out why they're playing so much with the format standards.

[Barry Green]

From what I understand, it's fully HDV compliant, but adds to it. So when recording in HDV mode you don't get uncompressed audio etc... it's just when going into its extended "ProHD" mode that you get it.

Kind of like how an FX1 is miniDV and HDV, the JVC is claiming it's HDV and ProHD.