Incredible Artifacts disappear with Z1 Downconversion

[Ruslan Odintsov]

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

I have now tried 4 times to download the images, only to find that only the first two open, the rest don't. I'm on a slow dialup in the Pacific at the moment, so as said before, I'm done with this.

Just another exuse to refuse my results. It clearly shows the difference, so try to get to that page again and see if it loads.

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Too many things simply don't add up. Maybe someone else is willing to track down why you are diametrically opposed to what has been everyone else' experience, from the Sony team to every post I've ever seen.

Sobebody just needs to open this page:

http://www.geocities.com/odintsov/HDVTests.htm

... and see for themselves. First you wanted me to post my results - and now you refuse them without even seeing them. That's very biased.

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

You are absolutely incorrect in saying Vegas changes colorspaces when rendering to third party codecs. If the codec can't support 709, how can you blame Vegas? Premiere, Ulead, Avid, Pinnacle, Canopus.

Douglas, were you even listening to what I as saying? I said it was completely unrelated to 709 colorspace. In that paragraph I was just talking about pure SD.

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

I've spent hours and hours looking at scopes with a wide variety of source and rendered media, and am very comfortable with what Vegas does and doesn't do.
On the other hand, you bring up Huffy and other codecs that *don't* support 709 and claim they are exactly the same, when they cannot be, so again, something is very, very fishy here.

Now please spend a few minutes to look at my stills. If you're not willing to do so, then there's definitely something fishy with your results. I'm sure, since you're making promo/demo products for big hardware and software manufacturers, you're probably forced to say nice things about them. I'm sorry, but the objective results show the real picture. If you're not willing to give those tests a fair chance, then I'm through with this as well, and will most likely never trust your [biased] opinion again. You refused to look at Canopus samples in my downconversion argument, now you don't feel like looking at my CF colorspace issues argument. Well, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for your explanation of those issues. You clearly refuse to even acknowledge them. I'll just live and learn on my own.

Cheers!

Ruslan.

P.S.: For anybody else who might be interested to look at the frame grab samples, I'll leave them up for 5 more days.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Ruslan,
I've now tried 6 times to view your images, and they do not completely download. Additionally, your posts are wandering back and forth from SD to HDV, so I'm no longer understanding your point.
To clarify:
Vegas (nor Premiere) mangles the color space when going to third party codecs UNLESS the codec itself does something to the color process. I've tested both on scopes numerous times. While I'm a diehard Vegas user, Premier, AVID, and even Ulead's relatively weak application don't shift colors when rendering to standard codecs any more than any other application does. When rendering to a DV codec from HDV in Vegas or Premiere, the results are only slightly different in luma, not in chroma. Vegas tends to run just a bit more bright, but it's not a fair comparison, because Premiere can't access the Sony DV codec used by Vegas. When rendering both to the Main Concept DV codec, output results (on a scope) are identical. Same for rendering to Microsoft DV.

As I've also stated several times, I'm in the Pacific, and don't have high speed access. I'm not interested in waiting for the Canopus samples to download, as it would easily be a 3 hour download per vid.
Further, your comment that I'm "forced to make good comments" is an insult. There is nothing further to gain in this thread, and therefore I'm locking it. Folks can look at your links (if you ever figure out how to make all of the images download, and will provide the original image for folks to make comparisons with) but there is no point continuing this thread.