Z1's future value at DVinfo.net

Gabor Maly · February 10th, 2010, 01:52 PM

I have been having the Z1 for a while now and love it and probably would be happy with it for many more years.

However if I look around then I see all these new formats with progressive being a standard default option / with different frame rates.

Z1 is not a cheap camera and as such should be treated as an investment. If I try to sell it now then I should be getting some good return on it vs. waiting for a few years and get close to nothing(?). At the same time I do not feel like spending big bucks on a newer camera but I guess it is still the better option.

What do you guys think about this topic? Am I too "financial" in this matter and Z1 will be sought after for years to come?

Best

Adam Gold · February 10th, 2010, 01:59 PM

If the most important factor is the cam's resale value, sell it now. With each passing day the technology gets more outdated.

But if it's serving you well, hold onto it until it dies. There's nothing crucial about having the latest technology. The Z1 is a workhorse and will produce great pictures for many years to come.

Bryan Cantwell · February 23rd, 2010, 01:31 AM

Well, one thing i'm keeping in mind is the Z1 is a 3 CCD camera, and at this point all of Sony's production prosumer & professional cams are CMOS cams...

So there's that.

Tom Hardwick · February 23rd, 2010, 02:05 AM

Bryan's right, and it's that one fact alone that stopped me in my tracks when I went to swap my Z1 out for a Z5. The rolling shutter effects inflict actual damage on the type of footage I shoot (I know, I've done two weddings on an EX1), so I decided to hang onto the CCD Z1 for a while longer.

CMOS chips certainly have their advantages but it's worth remembering that CMOS sensors don't have to have rolling shutters, but it makes the processing much easier if they do, and that means cheaper. It's perfectly possible to make a CMOS camera with a global shutter, and I suspect Sony are aiming at that eventually. I'll wait.

And in waiting it's made me re-evaluate my market, clients and prices. However nice it would be for me to buy the latest kit, is my market base paying for these constant upgrades? Is the Z1 not performing to expectations? Is the final DVD quality not to my / their liking?

While the Z1 continues to reliably deliver the goods, I'll stick with it.

tom.

Perrone Ford · February 23rd, 2010, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Cantwell

...at this point all of Sony's production prosumer & professional cams are CMOS cams...

What gives you the idea that all of Sony's pro cameras are CMOS? Nothing could be further from the truth.

Aric Mannion · February 23rd, 2010, 11:55 AM

I was under the impression that the new camera trend was all CMOS as well. Seems like every new camera I know about are CMOS.

I have the FX1 which was half the price as the Z1U, which I seems a little overpriced considering how similar they are. I'm planning on buying the fixed lens Scarlet camera from RED when it is released, which should be a major upgrade with a really low price tag. I considered selling my FX1, but I don't think it's worth it. I decided to just hang on to it as a back up camera.

Bryan Cantwell · February 23rd, 2010, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

What gives you the idea that all of Sony's pro cameras are CMOS? Nothing could be further from the truth.

It was late, and I should definitely have qualified that statement!!! What I meant, specifically, was the Sony cameras within the price range of the Z1... :)

Perrone Ford · February 23rd, 2010, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Cantwell

It was late, and I should definitely have qualified that statement!!! What I meant, specifically, was the Sony cameras within the price range of the Z1... :)

I figured as much, but didn't just want to leave that dangling out there. Most of Sonys Pro line is CCD, and the shift to CMOS is really in the prosumer and consumer space.

Tom Hardwick · February 24th, 2010, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aric Mannion

I have the FX1 which was half the price as the Z1U, which I seems a little overpriced considering how similar they are.

You either got the FX1 as an amazing deal or the Z1 was indeed overpriced in your outlet, as one was nowhere near double the price of the other. I have both cameras and I'd never pick up the FX1 by choice. I cannot now live without the Z1's focus assist, its XLRs, its numerical zoom readout, its fine tune of the manual white balance while filming. All well worth the extra dosh. But I do like the colour of the FX1 and its SD LP mode has saved the day on occasions.

tom.

Martyn Hull · February 24th, 2010, 07:30 AM

This will seem ignorant but what is rolling shutter,i have had 4 hd cams[3 hdv]with cmos chips since 2005 and i cant honestly say i have seen it or dont know if its there,i previously owned a 2100 with ccds.From what i have read rolling shutter will show on fast moving filming where the cam is moving quickly certainly if a cam is strapped to skateboards etc,i certaily have not tried that but did film round a car racing track as passenger with my canon hv and that looked fine.
Of note i was lucky to be be able to use a FX1000 and FX1 on a recent group shoot and for me the FX1000S footage is a class above the FX1 in fact i prefer my canons.

http://www.dvxuser.com/jason/CMOS-CCD/ i cant remember having some of the problems shown here am i just lucky or blind, everyones saying blind.

Aric Mannion · March 5th, 2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

You either got the FX1 as an amazing deal or the Z1 was indeed overpriced in your outlet, as one was nowhere near double the price of the other. I have both cameras and I'd never pick up the FX1 by choice. I cannot now live without the Z1's focus assist, its XLRs, its numerical zoom readout, its fine tune of the manual white balance while filming. All well worth the extra dosh. But I do like the colour of the FX1 and its SD LP mode has saved the day on occasions.

tom.

My FX1 was $3500 day one. But I remember the Z1U being $7,000. Even now, years later it seems to be around $5,000 (and around $2,000 for FX1). That's crazy! I can get a beachtech XLR adapter for around a hundred bucks (but I don't record audio w/ my camera anyway). AF focus assist sounds cool though.

Martyn, that article is quite disturbing since I shoot fast action and stabilize footage for effects work. I will have to research CMOS more, since CCD has been hard enough on my footage...

Philip Howells · March 20th, 2010, 09:29 PM

I would personally endorse what Tom has written with the rider that it's worth remembering that the manufacturers only stay in business by selling stuff. Built-in obsolescence (or perceived obsolescence) is their game.

As long as our Z1s (we work with three) continue to operate correctly (and by recently adding MRC1Ks to each we've few moving parts to worry about) and our clients buy our work, we shall ignore the blandishments of camera manufacturers.

I have a photographer pal who always has the newest Nikon and is always broke.

February 10th, 2010, 01:52 PM	#1
Gabor Maly New Boot Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Hungary Posts: 14	Z1's future value I have been having the Z1 for a while now and love it and probably would be happy with it for many more years. However if I look around then I see all these new formats with progressive being a standard default option / with different frame rates. Z1 is not a cheap camera and as such should be treated as an investment. If I try to sell it now then I should be getting some good return on it vs. waiting for a few years and get close to nothing(?). At the same time I do not feel like spending big bucks on a newer camera but I guess it is still the better option. What do you guys think about this topic? Am I too "financial" in this matter and Z1 will be sought after for years to come? Best

February 10th, 2010, 01:59 PM	#2
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	If the most important factor is the cam's resale value, sell it now. With each passing day the technology gets more outdated. But if it's serving you well, hold onto it until it dies. There's nothing crucial about having the latest technology. The Z1 is a workhorse and will produce great pictures for many years to come. __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

February 24th, 2010, 07:30 AM	#10
Martyn Hull Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: England Posts: 444	This will seem ignorant but what is rolling shutter,i have had 4 hd cams[3 hdv]with cmos chips since 2005 and i cant honestly say i have seen it or dont know if its there,i previously owned a 2100 with ccds.From what i have read rolling shutter will show on fast moving filming where the cam is moving quickly certainly if a cam is strapped to skateboards etc,i certaily have not tried that but did film round a car racing track as passenger with my canon hv and that looked fine. Of note i was lucky to be be able to use a FX1000 and FX1 on a recent group shoot and for me the FX1000S footage is a class above the FX1 in fact i prefer my canons. http://www.dvxuser.com/jason/CMOS-CCD/ i cant remember having some of the problems shown here am i just lucky or blind, everyones saying blind. Last edited by Martyn Hull; February 24th, 2010 at 08:06 AM.

February 23rd, 2010, 01:31 AM	#3
Bryan Cantwell Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Terre Haute, IN Posts: 277	Well, one thing i'm keeping in mind is the Z1 is a 3 CCD camera, and at this point all of Sony's production prosumer & professional cams are CMOS cams... So there's that.

February 23rd, 2010, 02:05 AM	#4
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Bryan's right, and it's that one fact alone that stopped me in my tracks when I went to swap my Z1 out for a Z5. The rolling shutter effects inflict actual damage on the type of footage I shoot (I know, I've done two weddings on an EX1), so I decided to hang onto the CCD Z1 for a while longer. CMOS chips certainly have their advantages but it's worth remembering that CMOS sensors don't have to have rolling shutters, but it makes the processing much easier if they do, and that means cheaper. It's perfectly possible to make a CMOS camera with a global shutter, and I suspect Sony are aiming at that eventually. I'll wait. And in waiting it's made me re-evaluate my market, clients and prices. However nice it would be for me to buy the latest kit, is my market base paying for these constant upgrades? Is the Z1 not performing to expectations? Is the final DVD quality not to my / their liking? While the Z1 continues to reliably deliver the goods, I'll stick with it. tom.

February 23rd, 2010, 11:55 AM	#6
Aric Mannion Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 616	I was under the impression that the new camera trend was all CMOS as well. Seems like every new camera I know about are CMOS. I have the FX1 which was half the price as the Z1U, which I seems a little overpriced considering how similar they are. I'm planning on buying the fixed lens Scarlet camera from RED when it is released, which should be a major upgrade with a really low price tag. I considered selling my FX1, but I don't think it's worth it. I decided to just hang on to it as a back up camera.

March 20th, 2010, 09:29 PM	#12
Philip Howells Trustee Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 1,212	I would personally endorse what Tom has written with the rider that it's worth remembering that the manufacturers only stay in business by selling stuff. Built-in obsolescence (or perceived obsolescence) is their game. As long as our Z1s (we work with three) continue to operate correctly (and by recently adding MRC1Ks to each we've few moving parts to worry about) and our clients buy our work, we shall ignore the blandishments of camera manufacturers. I have a photographer pal who always has the newest Nikon and is always broke.