Watch my new video clip - what is this strange flair line thing form Sony Z1 camera? at DVinfo.net

Silas Barker · April 7th, 2010, 11:17 PM

Great shots, but there is this dumb flare line thing from the Sony z1 camera I was shooting with. Its at about 1.06-1.07 in the video.

I don't remember having this before much. Suggestions?

http://www.silasbarker.com/demo.html?joyjason

Shaughan Flynn · April 8th, 2010, 12:29 AM

I would guess that shooting right with the sun in the lens like that might have something to do with it - How many hours on your Z1? I replaced mine last year with a newer camera as the Z1 was starting to give me weird digital artifacts in the footage - Mine had about 250 hrs on it...

Silas Barker · April 8th, 2010, 12:45 AM

I have about 1000 hours on mine.

I also have a newer Z5 and I don't have anything like that on that camera.

ITs also that way in the LCD screen, so its not a digital thing, its a lens thing. I cleaned it really good and its still that way. Pretty annoying otherwise those shots would have been even better

John Reilly · April 8th, 2010, 01:24 AM

Silas,

Just wondering, since you were talking about 2 cams I own, if you have ever shot an event with the Z1U interlaced and the Z5U 30P Progressive, say, in a multi-cam shoot?

If you have, how far apart are the images...is it as far off as say, a 3 chipper vs. a single CCD camera?

Hope you resolve the "flare" issue...

John Reilly

Tom Hardwick · April 8th, 2010, 01:29 AM

Nice film Silas, just love your s-m-o-o-t-h camera movements. The vertical line you see is (normal) CCD smear, and it gets worse the higher the shutter speed you use. Not a lens thing at all.

But it looked like you were on the default 1/60th and the gross over-exposure of the sun has just been too much for those chips. Not to worry - at least the electronic flashes as the couple come towards us haven't caused flash banding as they would have done if you'd used the (CMOS) Z5.

All cameras have their compromises and limitations. Your artwork behind the camera transcends any CCD smear you may get in your filmmaking, and I'm pretty sure the couple won't see it as a fault in the slightest.

tom.

Silas Barker · April 8th, 2010, 01:45 AM

Tom,
Glad you like the shots!

I was using it in manual at about 2000 shutter speed, with an iris of 1.6.
Do you think adjusting the shutter speed or iris would help? I have not tried that yet.

When I first got the camera about 2 years ago I dont remember anything like those smears, but I also used to use everything on auto more.

Also, the whiteness of the background is more white because I added contrast in post, not because the scene was overlit. I like everything to have a contrasty sharp look.

Tom Hardwick · April 8th, 2010, 02:05 AM

Whooooh! Oh yes, CCD smear is VERY dependant on shutter speed, and with my Z1 on it's default 1/50th it's very difficult indeed to get smear whatever the lighting. The higher the shutter speed the worse the smear (not flare, note).

You talk of not getting the smear when used on auto and you're perfectly correct - auto would never go for max aperture and very high shutter speeds - it will always call for the NDs to be inserted and stop down the lens.

Adjusting the iris has no effect on CCD smear, though of course does affect lens flare.

Yes, I could see where you'd played with contrast and brightness and vignetted the image. All good stuff, and I wouldn't worry too much about not aiming for 100% pictorial accuracy. Picasso wasn't renowned for the realism of his portraiture, but it didn't harm his career any.

tom.

Vito DeFilippo · April 8th, 2010, 06:43 AM

You mean the lens flare that has the vertical white line below it? It might be the HDV codec breaking down. I posted something similar a few years back with reference to camera flashes. Take a look:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/general-...oto-flash.html

It makes me wonder if it's the same issue.

Bill Ward · April 8th, 2010, 12:43 PM

That looks like classic CCD banding.

Steve Mann · April 9th, 2010, 10:38 PM

Agreed, it's a CCD artifact. Google CCD Smear and you'll find a lot of examples exactly like yours. (BTW - great shots.)

Silas Barker · April 9th, 2010, 11:28 PM

I think more auto like settings help, but CMOS has better image!

Steve Mann · April 10th, 2010, 12:35 AM

Maybe so, but CMOS has other issues that result in significantly more noticeable artifacts.

Silas Barker · April 10th, 2010, 01:01 AM

I use both CCD and CMOS cameras and so far only complaint with cmos is the slow auto focus, which I like using with the glidecam.

Steve Mann · April 10th, 2010, 01:48 PM

Try a whip pan.

Silas Barker · April 10th, 2010, 01:50 PM

Why would I do that?
For my work that's not a problem and for something moving that fast no one cares much anyways.

April 7th, 2010, 11:17 PM	#1
Silas Barker Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 577	Watch my new video clip - what is this strange flair line thing form Sony Z1 camera? Great shots, but there is this dumb flare line thing from the Sony z1 camera I was shooting with. Its at about 1.06-1.07 in the video. I don't remember having this before much. Suggestions? http://www.silasbarker.com/demo.html?joyjason

April 8th, 2010, 12:29 AM	#2
Shaughan Flynn Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 272	I would guess that shooting right with the sun in the lens like that might have something to do with it - How many hours on your Z1? I replaced mine last year with a newer camera as the Z1 was starting to give me weird digital artifacts in the footage - Mine had about 250 hrs on it... __________________ B-Scene Films

April 8th, 2010, 01:24 AM	#4
John Reilly Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Eastern Los Angeles County, CA Posts: 70	Z1U and Z5U Silas, Just wondering, since you were talking about 2 cams I own, if you have ever shot an event with the Z1U interlaced and the Z5U 30P Progressive, say, in a multi-cam shoot? If you have, how far apart are the images...is it as far off as say, a 3 chipper vs. a single CCD camera? Hope you resolve the "flare" issue... John Reilly

April 8th, 2010, 06:43 AM	#8
Vito DeFilippo Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 1,585	You mean the lens flare that has the vertical white line below it? It might be the HDV codec breaking down. I posted something similar a few years back with reference to camera flashes. Take a look: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/general-...oto-flash.html It makes me wonder if it's the same issue. __________________ . http://www.nosmallroles.com

April 8th, 2010, 12:45 AM	#3
Silas Barker Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 577	I have about 1000 hours on mine. I also have a newer Z5 and I don't have anything like that on that camera. ITs also that way in the LCD screen, so its not a digital thing, its a lens thing. I cleaned it really good and its still that way. Pretty annoying otherwise those shots would have been even better

April 8th, 2010, 01:29 AM	#5
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Nice film Silas, just love your s-m-o-o-t-h camera movements. The vertical line you see is (normal) CCD smear, and it gets worse the higher the shutter speed you use. Not a lens thing at all. But it looked like you were on the default 1/60th and the gross over-exposure of the sun has just been too much for those chips. Not to worry - at least the electronic flashes as the couple come towards us haven't caused flash banding as they would have done if you'd used the (CMOS) Z5. All cameras have their compromises and limitations. Your artwork behind the camera transcends any CCD smear you may get in your filmmaking, and I'm pretty sure the couple won't see it as a fault in the slightest. tom.

April 8th, 2010, 01:45 AM	#6
Silas Barker Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 577	Tom, Glad you like the shots! I was using it in manual at about 2000 shutter speed, with an iris of 1.6. Do you think adjusting the shutter speed or iris would help? I have not tried that yet. When I first got the camera about 2 years ago I dont remember anything like those smears, but I also used to use everything on auto more. Also, the whiteness of the background is more white because I added contrast in post, not because the scene was overlit. I like everything to have a contrasty sharp look.

April 8th, 2010, 02:05 AM	#7
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Whooooh! Oh yes, CCD smear is VERY dependant on shutter speed, and with my Z1 on it's default 1/50th it's very difficult indeed to get smear whatever the lighting. The higher the shutter speed the worse the smear (not flare, note). You talk of not getting the smear when used on auto and you're perfectly correct - auto would never go for max aperture and very high shutter speeds - it will always call for the NDs to be inserted and stop down the lens. Adjusting the iris has no effect on CCD smear, though of course does affect lens flare. Yes, I could see where you'd played with contrast and brightness and vignetted the image. All good stuff, and I wouldn't worry too much about not aiming for 100% pictorial accuracy. Picasso wasn't renowned for the realism of his portraiture, but it didn't harm his career any. tom.

April 8th, 2010, 12:43 PM	#9
Bill Ward Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 580	That looks like classic CCD banding.

April 9th, 2010, 10:38 PM	#10
Steve Mann New Boot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Westford, MA Posts: 8	Agreed, it's a CCD artifact. Google CCD Smear and you'll find a lot of examples exactly like yours. (BTW - great shots.)

April 9th, 2010, 11:28 PM	#11
Silas Barker Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 577	I think more auto like settings help, but CMOS has better image!

April 10th, 2010, 12:35 AM	#12
Steve Mann New Boot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Westford, MA Posts: 8	Maybe so, but CMOS has other issues that result in significantly more noticeable artifacts.

April 10th, 2010, 01:01 AM	#13
Silas Barker Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 577	I use both CCD and CMOS cameras and so far only complaint with cmos is the slow auto focus, which I like using with the glidecam.

April 10th, 2010, 01:48 PM	#14
Steve Mann New Boot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Westford, MA Posts: 8	Try a whip pan.

April 10th, 2010, 01:50 PM	#15
Silas Barker Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 577	Why would I do that? For my work that's not a problem and for something moving that fast no one cares much anyways.