Z1 LANC zoom disappointment at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-Z1 / HDR-FX1

Sony HVR-Z1 / HDR-FX1
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CCD HDV camcorder.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 26th, 2005, 04:07 PM   #1
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,542
Z1 LANC zoom disappointment

Now that my workload has eased a bit I've had the time to do a zoom speed test on my different cameras. I just finished shooting 4 performances with my Z1 and am generally very pleased, but my gut reaction was that the zoom speed was very fast as compared to my PDX-10 when using the same LANC controller. Well it turns out this is true unfortunately. I have a Varizoom Pro-L controller and use it with the speed dial set to the minimum:

http://www.varizoom.com/products/controls/vzprol.html

The slowest zoom from full wide to full telephoto was 22 seconds on the Z1, more than twice as fast as the 45 seconds the PDX-10 takes using the same controller at the same setting. HOWEVER, using the Z1's rocker zoom lever I was able to get a 75 second zoom (see also this thread where John and Shawn were able to get a 105 sec zoom with the built-in rocker - it's very difficult to maintain that speed and they obviously practiced more than me :-)

I also tried the same test on my VX-2000 and interestingly the Varizoom took 22 seconds there too, as did the camera's rocker zoom.

So what's up with the Z1? Is there some other type of lens control that can achieve a slow, steady zoom? Are they not properly implementing LANC, or is the slow rocker zoom some sort of internal function which can't be remote controlled?

This is a disappointment for event work where you're on a tripod and want subtle zooms without touching the camera and causing it to shake.
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 26th, 2005, 04:31 PM   #2
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES
Posts: 1,215
Boyd,
I've noticed this on both the FX1 and the Z1, when using my Manfrotto 523Pro LANC controller. Like you, I'm still better of using the zoom rocker for really slow speeds.
There must be something amiss with the LANC settings surely - I mean since slow zooms can be achieved...

Robin
Robin Davies-Rollinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 26th, 2005, 04:48 PM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,940
Robin
Since you have both FX1 and Z1 is there any difference in the ramp to start/stop the zoom. I am disappointed in my FX1 as it starts and stops very abruptly compared to my TRV50 or PC10 or even the TRV740. There is a smooth zoom feature on the Z1 what is this? My controllers are manfrotto 521 and two Sony Lanc controllers. With all these controllers the zoom on the TRV50 is very controllable and proffessional looking but no matter what I do with the FZ1 it has abrupt stop and start very amateur looking I have tended to pan just a little before starting and stopping to mask the effect. IT may be that the Lanc controllers are not starting on the slowest speed which may be the only one with a ramp on the motor control though I am unable to smoothly start or stop with the rocker!!!

Ron Evans
Ron Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 26th, 2005, 05:00 PM   #4
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,542
I don't really have any complaints about the start/stop on the Z1, it seems smoother than my PDX-10. Although the faster speed tends to make any stop or start a little more abrupt. But the PDX-10 has a very annoying glitch (which others have also noticed) where the image goes a bit out of focus at the end of a zoom to max telephoto until you release the lanc control.
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2005, 09:58 AM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: US & THEM
Posts: 827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff
The slowest zoom from full wide to full telephoto was 22 seconds on the Z1, more than twice as fast as the 45 seconds the PDX-10 takes using the same controller at the same setting. HOWEVER, using the Z1's rocker zoom lever I was able to get a 75 second zoom (see also this thread where John and Shawn were able to get a 105 sec zoom with the built-in rocker - it's very difficult to maintain that speed and they obviously practiced more than me :-)


So what's up with the Z1? Is there some other type of lens control that can achieve a slow, steady zoom? Are they not properly implementing LANC, or is the slow rocker zoom some sort of internal function which can't be remote controlled?
Only 75 secs Boyd? - get some practice in :)

The secret to the 100 sec figure is to slightly reduce rocker pressure after starting the zoom and it slows down. Its as if the rocker needs a threshold pressure to begin the zoom then it can be backed off a little for the super slow 0.5 mm/sec rate.

Of course you have to practice, but thats half the fun - try a super slow reveal out of a CU at 1/3 composition whilst maintaining headroom - which involves micro pan and micro tilt movements - then you will know you have arrived !

Of course all of this is moot if your cam is ten feet in the air at the end of a jib :(

I suspect the Z1/FX1 uses a look up table which is different from its other range so a Lanc command of slowest is interpreted as 4 x times the slowest in the table - bad news for 3rd party controllers

I am looking into having a handle mounted cable release assembly made which will operate the A & B shot transx buttons as well as applying just the correct pressure for super slow zoom - thats three cables total, each of which will be quite long for jib work.
__________________
John Jay

Beware ***PLUGGER-BYTES***
John Jay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2005, 10:42 AM   #6
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Jay
The secret to the 100 sec figure is to slightly reduce rocker pressure after starting the zoom and it slows down. Its as if the rocker needs a threshold pressure to begin the zoom then it can be backed off a little
I actually noticed that and thought it was odd that you needed to press harder to start the zoom. The problem is, as you back off it's tricky not to go so far that the zoom stops. Honestly, I only tried using the rocker twice.... it never would have even occured to me that it provided capabilities beyond the LANC or handle zoom!

The shot transition would seem like a handy way to get around these issues but unfortunately it's limited to the handle zoom speeds which also max out at 22 secs.

Sounds like a cool gadget you're working on, I read about that in another thread. Let us know how it turns out!
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2005, 05:25 PM   #7
Sponsor: VariZoom
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 58
Z1 zoom speed

Boyd,

You are correct about not being able to achieve the slowest speed with your controller. The slowest speeds I have seen reported so far with a VariZoom and Bogen control have been 24 seconds.

If Sony has a way to access that slower speed they have been unwilling to share it. It may be impossible to activate this slow speed by remote. It is unfortunate and frustrating because it would be so nice to utilize those slow speeds by remote. I have both the Z1 and FX1

If it becomes possible to implement these speeds by remote we will make it available immediately. Being in the control business we get many calls from videographers when considering a purchase of a new camera. I know it has cost many sales for Sony.

Tom

VariZoom Lens Controls
Thomas McKay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2005, 05:35 PM   #8
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,542
Oh well, as I suspected. But there are a LOT of other things to like about these cameras.

Mark me down for an order if you ever figure out how to make a controller that accesses the slower speed! :-)
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2005, 05:43 PM   #9
Sponsor: VariZoom
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 58
Zi Zoom speeds

Boyd,

I just forwarded Sony your post, along with a few others, and hopefully they will consider addressing the problem.

Tom McKay

www.varizoom.com
Thomas McKay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2005, 09:25 AM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,940
Hi Thomas you can forward my posts too. It is really dissappointing to have such a great camcorder that can't match the lower priced consumer camcorders ( though come to think about it the PC10 wasn't much less when I bought it!!!!)for zoom performance with Sony's own Lanc controllers. With both Sony controllers that I have and the Manfrotto 521 I can make the PC10 and TRV50 very smooth start and stop that is impossible with the FX1. Even the rocker on the FX1 doesn't have the ramp start and stop that appears to be on the PC10 and TRV50. The reason that I asked about the Z1 is that it is the sort of thing Sony does between the prosumer and Pro products, fundamentally the same product just different firmware for features.

Ron Evans
Ron Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2005, 01:31 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: US & THEM
Posts: 827
Thomas,

are you using ?:

00H variable speed zoom Tele: slowest speed
10H variable speed zoom Wide: slowest speed


if so have you tried ?:

35H Zoom Tele slow
37H Zoom Wide slow


where the hex bytes are from Sub-Command in Byte 0
__________________
John Jay

Beware ***PLUGGER-BYTES***
John Jay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 09:08 AM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Posts: 416
Just to add, Bebob Zoe DVL on its slowest setting gives 22 secs. :-(

A real pain that to get the 70+ second zoom, the big rocker is the only way.

This is useless for our applications, especially as you can't guarantee pressing the rocker lightly, yet continually, yet not stopping mid-zoom.
__________________
Martin at HeadSpin HD on Blu-ray
Martin Mayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 12:46 PM   #13
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,542
<sigh> and you got my hopes up with that other post about the BeBob ;-)

I wish Sony would fix this... maybe it would only take a firmware patch? It's ridiculous that the slowest LANC zoom speed on my Z1 is twice as fast as my little PDX-10....
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2006, 07:46 AM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Posts: 416
Did anybody ever find a way of getting a slow zoom via LANC?

(In fact, I find I can get c.80 seconds to zoom in, and c.130(!) seconds to zoom out but only with the big rocker on the body, it's just that is frustratingly unreliable to use, just when you want a controllable zoom. Sigh too.)
__________________
Martin at HeadSpin HD on Blu-ray
Martin Mayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2006, 11:43 AM   #15
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Billericay, England UK
Posts: 4,711
You guys have widened my eyes, and my Z1's the same: 22 seconds using the slowest Zoe setting, and 72 seconds on the big rocker. Quite a surprise.

tom.
Tom Hardwick is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-Z1 / HDR-FX1

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:27 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network