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Sony HVR-Z1 / HDR-FX1
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CCD HDV camcorder.


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Old January 15th, 2006, 04:03 PM   #1
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Definitive resource for HDV workflow?

Hey guys I'm looking at shooting a cheap feature with a FX1 or Z1U and an HC1 as a behind the scenes and sometimes B roll cam. I have a hookup that can get me both these cams for less than the price of the HVX and 1 p2 card which is why this setup interests me so much.

All this time I've been a dvx user(I don't know if the pun is intended) so I'm not used to converting to 24p or anything like that. But I don't care about any hassles I might endure(my time is free) as long as the end result looks comparable to Tomorrow is Today (http://www.lumieremedia.com/tomorrow...orrow_trailer/) then I am more than satisfied. The problem is getting it to look like that.

I have been doing extensive searching on this forum for the few days and never really find useful information for someone that doesn't know where to begin I was seeing things like "just throw on nattress and convert to 24p," that's so vague and doesn't really tell me anything.

So I guess what I'm looking for is definitive resource for the HDV workflow. Is there is a different forum, a book, or does someone here want to share it? I need to know these BEFORE spending my hard earned dollars so I can evaluate whether or not to take the plunge. These are types of questions I have about it:

1. Shooting:
-What to shoot and why(people say 50i but since the b roll hc1 only shoots 60i can both be matched when they're brought to 24p?
-If they can why bother shooting one at 50i and one at 60i why not just both at 60i?)
-People have said HDV captures sound poorly, how do you properly capture sound with these camera since they're supposedly way to quiet?

2. Editing:
-How should I capture it? Since it's obviously going to go onto a SD DVD do I use the camera to downcovert to DV on capture or edit, colour correct and key in real HDV?
-Should I capture HDV and then use a program to make it DVCpro50(since it's better than regular dv for DVDs)?
-What program would I use to do that and where do I find it?

3. Conversion:
-How do I make a 24p timeline in FCP if the footage captured is at 50i or 60i I don't see where to change the timeline settings?
-Which conversion program is better DVfilmmaker or Nattress?
-I also heard Nattress has 2 different plugins that do the conversion (I think one is called Film Effects and the other Standards Conversion) which do I want to use and why?
-What are the settings for properly converting it to 24(a friend showed me his stuff downcoverted with nattress and it looked like I was practically seeing double, I guess he didn't know what he was doing)?
-Would I convert to 24 and down convert all at once?
-Should this be done before editing?
-How good does the conversion look compared to real 24p?
-Is the resolution loss really noticeable once the footage has been downconverted to DVD?
-People mention having to slow the sound down and shift it's pitch or something, what FCP plugin does that and how do I set it to do what I need to do?

4. Finishing:
-Can HDV be downconverted to a nice looking true 24p DVD, or would it be one of those 24 in a 29.98 deals?

If I could find all the answers to those questions I'd be in the clear and could get back to previz, but I'm wasting so much time shifting through vague answers(since everyone already know them but me no one seems to really outright say it). So if someone(s) could point me in the right direction that'd be great.
Evan C. King is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2006, 09:46 PM   #2
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HDV/60i -> DVFilm Maker = 24p

"DVFilm Maker" supports 50i and 50i
Tomas Chinchilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2006, 01:05 AM   #3
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I won't be able to answer all of your queries, because I'm PC based rather than Mac and I have no idea from your post what sort of video/movie you intend to shoot...

That said, I have been watching some 720 HD MPEG2 transport streams I've made with mixed clips from my FX-1e PAL 1080i 50fps AND my JVC NTSC 720p 30fps camcorders. That's clips from both cams in the same project (in Vegas using a HD 720 24p custom project template) rendered to the one final HD 720 24p video.

So it does work - but you do need to use uncompressed intermediaries OR proxy files to do it correctly. On PC that means Cineform AspectHD or ConnectHD or Gearshift. On Mac, then I'd suggest you trawl the LumiereHD forum as well as getting familiar with what the Nattress filters provide.

BTW. I watched my final MPEG2 on my 83cm LCD HDTV via a 10/100 connected Roku HD1000 Photobridge, and both PAL and NTSC versions of the same file played back without problem via the Roku. It was a different story watching those very same clips on any of my computers however!! There were visible artifacts and stop-motion problems regardless of whether it was viewed on any of my 2 CRT's or 3 LCD's. None of these aberations that were visible when viewing on computer appeared when viewing via the Roku HD network media player.

Moral of the story is: If you don't have a decent HDTV, get one!!

As for the audio query... Only you are going to know whether you'll need to supplement the audio for the project you intend. On board mics and even cam mounted shotguns etc, may still not be what you need.

If you're a finicky audio technician who doesn't believe any camera's audio abilities are good enough regardless of the spec's then you'd better get some serious sound gear. If you are creative with the audio that the cameras provide (I'd be surprised if the HC1 has as good audio as the FX-1 though) you may well be pleasantly surprised at how good it actually is. Just don't think you're going to get Hollywood style dramatic dialogue without some serious thought and maybe even audio gear.

As for making a 24p DVD from HDV source material... the answer is obviously yes. I haven't gone out of my way to do so, but as I mentioned above you can mix and match HDV of various flavours without having a "Nuclear Holocaust" on your hands. As long as your source MPEG2 works fine, then any DVD will also work fine. If it doesn't - you need to learn a lot more on writing DVDs or your DVD writer is kaput.

I would never shoot DV with either of my cams, nor would I ever in-camera downconvert, because the software conversions are now superior with greater frame-rate flexibility... plus if you use uncompressed or proxy clips when editing, you keep the quality as close to maximum before you write the compressed final. It's logical if you want the best quality end product to shoot at the highest resolution, edit at the highest possible resolution and write the final from the highest possible resolution.

That's my two-pence worth. Now there'll be others who'll come along to add their bit and confuse you even more. Hope you don't get cold feet about tackling your project, just because there's so many options to tackle something so new and confusing... Give it a go - you may be very pleasantly surprised - and if you aren't pleasantly surprised you'll have at least learnt that this HDV thing is not for you!!
Steve Crisdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2006, 03:57 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan C. King
2. Editing:
-How should I capture it? Since it's obviously going to go onto a SD DVD do I use the camera to downcovert to DV on capture or edit, colour correct and key in real HDV?
-Should I capture HDV and then use a program to make it DVCpro50(since it's better than regular dv for DVDs)?
-What program would I use to do that and where do I find it?

3. Conversion:
-How do I make a 24p timeline in FCP if the footage captured is at 50i or 60i I don't see where to change the timeline settings?
-Which conversion program is better DVfilmmaker or Nattress?
-I also heard Nattress has 2 different plugins that do the conversion (I think one is called Film Effects and the other Standards Conversion) which do I want to use and why?
-What are the settings for properly converting it to 24(a friend showed me his stuff downcoverted with nattress and it looked like I was practically seeing double, I guess he didn't know what he was doing)?
-Would I convert to 24 and down convert all at once?
-Should this be done before editing?
-How good does the conversion look compared to real 24p?
-Is the resolution loss really noticeable once the footage has been downconverted to DVD?
-People mention having to slow the sound down and shift it's pitch or something, what FCP plugin does that and how do I set it to do what I need to do?
Take a look at this page. The director of Tomorrow is Today made a workflow and lighting slide available from his HD Production 2 day class he gave at Macworld:

http://www.lumieremedia.com//other-n...available.html

Henry
Henry Kirkbride is offline   Reply
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