Assorted Z1 questions from a jilted HVX suitor at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-Z1 / HDR-FX1

Sony HVR-Z1 / HDR-FX1
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CCD HDV camcorder.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 26th, 2006, 03:18 AM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Posts: 115
Assorted Z1 questions from a jilted HVX suitor

The inevitable has happened, the time frame between shoot dates and the elusive delivery date of my HVX-200 has reached the breaking point. I've heard Heath speak quite often about purchasing the tool you need NOW, when you need it ... I guess "now's" the time for the Z1.

Some more explanation/back-story before I jump into some unanswered questions (at least I can't seem to find them in my browsing): I work for a highly creative church in the Denver area and we create a wide variety of video pieces ... everything from interview driven shorts to longer narrative pieces. That being said, I'm not looking to film-out my next short. Typically I'm downconverting to DVD for distribution or presentation. I just want to get a great image on solid state media, er, uh ... tape. The progressive modes of the HVX, 4:2:2 colorspace (we've been pulling a few keys lately) as well as the tapeless workflow were points that drew me away from the Z1 towards the HVX a few months back.

But I've got 8 projects shooting in February and I need to get moving.

So, long-winded setup gives way to quick questions:

- Not trusting the viewfinder of the HVX I purchased the Panny BT-LH1700 monitor for studio and field use. Can I run component out of the Z1 while shooting to this external monitor ... focus check, composition, etc.?

- Can I use the component out to a monitor AND a Firestore FS-4 Pro HD out Firewire simultaneously while shooting?

- If I do a green screen shoot can I/should I digitize using the DVCPro HD codec (no RAID so no uncompressed media) through my new KONA LH card instead of using HDV? (I'll get the Sony deck as well) Meaning, will the 4:2:2 colorspace of DVC Pro HD be better to pull the key even though the material was originally shot with the 4:2:0 colorspace of HDV? Bottom line, will I pull a better key this way?

- I've heard rumblings and rumors about the compressed audio being poor on the Z1 ... any real life comments?

- Have fun with this one ... what would be the first essential piece of gear/add-on I should get for the Z1 with the extra $2300 I'll have? :o)

- Finally, any encouragement/discouragement out there ... quite honestly I think this is the best move I can make ... I just want to make sure my ducks are in a row and quackin', ya know?

Thanks y'all!

- Hans
__________________
Hans Damkoehler
fcp.video.editor@me.com

Last edited by Hans Damkoehler; January 26th, 2006 at 04:18 AM.
Hans Damkoehler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26th, 2006, 04:54 AM   #2
New Boot
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 12
Buy it and make some great video!

When you've got work that needs the new tools--just go for what's available and don't look back.

I've been using my new Kona LH for capturing from HDCAM and Z1U HDV to DVCPROHD 1080i. It works great. 27 reels without a single dropped frame or glitch. The HDCAM is injested via HDSDI, and I capture HDV via analog component in. Great image. I've captured to FW800 raids, and also single FW800. No problem at all.

Perhaps somebody can respond to your camera questions, as I haven't shot with the Z1 myself.

Have fun.
Tony Moskal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26th, 2006, 06:33 AM   #3
Barry Wan Kenobi
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Damkoehler
Can I run component out of the Z1 while shooting to this external monitor ... focus check, composition, etc.?
Yes.

Quote:
- Can I use the component out to a monitor AND a Firestore FS-4 Pro HD out Firewire simultaneously while shooting?
Yes.

Quote:
- If I do a green screen shoot can I/should I digitize using the DVCPro HD codec (no RAID so no uncompressed media) through my new KONA LH card instead of using HDV? (I'll get the Sony deck as well) Meaning, will the 4:2:2 colorspace of DVC Pro HD be better to pull the key even though the material was originally shot with the 4:2:0 colorspace of HDV? Bottom line, will I pull a better key this way?
No. Once it's been recorded 4:2:0 on HDV, that advantage is gone. If you have the Kona available though, is there a chance you could set it up in the same room for the greenscreen shoot? If you shoot live to the Kona, instead of recording to tape, then you'll get the advantage of 4:2:2 recording.
Barry Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26th, 2006, 07:59 AM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Innsbruck,Austria
Posts: 45
In about two weeks Im using Sonys Z1 exact one year, mainly for shows, corporatevideos and Cable-TV, here are my findings:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Damkoehler
... focus check, composition, etc.?
- Hans
After a few projects, I learned to trust the autofocus, just push autofocus in manualmode and youre done in 90%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Damkoehler
- If I do a green screen shoot can I/should I digitize using the DVCPro HD codec (no RAID so no uncompressed media) through my new KONA LH card instead of using HDV? (I'll get the Sony deck as well) Meaning, will the 4:2:2 colorspace of DVC Pro HD be better to pull the key even though the material was originally shot with the 4:2:0 colorspace of HDV? Bottom line, will I pull a better key this way?
- Hans
in HDV it could be be better say easier, some tweaking in AfterEffects is needed but as always a well lit greenbox saves a lot of work

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Damkoehler
- I've heard rumblings and rumors about the compressed audio being poor on the Z1 ... any real life comments?
- Hans
to be honest, Ive never used the built in mic but using Sennheiser mics cabeled and wireless I never had any problem with the quality. (as usual for critical audiowork an extra soundengeneer is needed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Damkoehler
- Have fun with this one ... what would be the first essential piece of gear/add-on I should get for the Z1 with the extra $2300 I'll have? :o)
- Hans
Opticrange (for me) is to small, I would opt for Century tele 1.5x, a (vocas)mattebox and filters like polarizer, additional ND and a blackpromist.
A shoulder support!

Have fun...

alex
Alex Horvath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26th, 2006, 08:27 AM   #5
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Horvath
Opticrange (for me) is to small, I would opt for Century tele 1.5x, a (vocas)mattebox and filters like polarizer, additional ND and a blackpromist.
A shoulder support!
Actually the Century lens is 1.6x, see the following thread. If you're getting this lens then their sunshade is a much less expensive alternative to a mattebox as long as you don't need a flag - see the photos I posted: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=58525

I also found a reasonably priced shoulder rest: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=57910
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26th, 2006, 09:25 AM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Posts: 115
Hey guys, thanks for the response! Keep em' comin'! You're building my confidence ... it's tough to be convinced (enticed?) to change directions and then to have to make your way back.

Not to hijack my own thread but in regard to ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Moskal
I capture HDV via analog component in. Great image. I've captured to FW800 raids, and also single FW800. No problem at all.
.
... has anyone seen the ads for Lacie's "Two Big" SATA II Raid? They claim 115 Mb sustained transfer rate ... thoughts on this type of system? Of course, it too is not shipping yet.

Barry ... Late last night I took a look at your 4 camera shootout on another post ... thanks for the work that went into that by the way ... did you notice anything significant between the HVX and the Z1 in regards to achieving a shallow depth of field? I can't remember if that was part of your post or not.

(Note that I'm an editor by trade and am much more comfortable trimming frames than shooting them ... thus some of the neophyte questions.)

Thanks folks!

- H
__________________
Hans Damkoehler
fcp.video.editor@me.com
Hans Damkoehler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26th, 2006, 09:42 AM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Posts: 115
Kona capture for greenscreen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Green
If you shoot live to the Kona, instead of recording to tape, then you'll get the advantage of 4:2:2 recording.
Thanks for that tip, Barry ... I hadn't really thought of dragging that out but it would be doable ... I'd need to find a rack that I could mount my G5 in that would kill off the jet engine inside the mac, but I'm sure that's doable.

So, to think through it then ... component out to the KONA, then HD-SDI out to the monitor and I'm set, right? Any lag in the video that will arrive on the LH1700?

PS - Have you or anybody else consistently used the Firestore? The tapeless workflow seems possible again ... though, I must admit I felt some relief in the possibility of having tapes sitting on the shelf ... just in case, ya know? That said, could a DVHS deck be used to backup the Firestore masters? Just spitballin' ...

Thanks!
__________________
Hans Damkoehler
fcp.video.editor@me.com
Hans Damkoehler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26th, 2006, 01:31 PM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 2,488
I think you'll find that HDV will be fine for most of your intended purposes, and much easier to deal with than trying to archive HVX200 footage. One thing you'll want to test though is how the Z1U responds in your dimmest typical lighting conditions -- you may find this isn't a problem but test it anyway before an actual event. If your low-light situations are below what the camera can comfortably handle then you'll need to plan around that.

Capturing HDV to a Firestore DTE works over firewire, so it shouldn't be any problem to do that and simultaneously view on a monitor via analog cables. The Z1U should come with a special component cable which has its own output jack. By the way, I don't think you need the Pro version of Firestore for HDV. Also, you may find it useful to run the Firestore in DV recording mode while capturing HDV to tape, so you can pick and choose which one you want to edit without requiring any extra rendering time. (A little trick I've been using lately.)

If you haven't already bought the larger-size Sony batteries for the Z1U, get them. You can shoot almost all day on a single charge without needing to be plugged into a wall, which is very handy for any kind of event work.

For green screen editing, shoot in HDV and then capture to a good intermediate editing codec, like Cineform Aspect HD or Canopus HQ.

Good luck and have fun! Maybe we can all buy HVX200s in three or four years when the cost of P2 memory comes down a little...

Last edited by Kevin Shaw; January 27th, 2006 at 11:27 AM.
Kevin Shaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26th, 2006, 06:03 PM   #9
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw
If you haven't already bought the larger-size Sony batteries for the Z1U, get them. You can shoot almost all day on a single charge
I have a couple NPF-970's and a NPF-960. I haven't run any of them all the way dead during a shoot, but my impression is that the 970's are good for about 4 hours continuous shooting with the LCD on, maybe a little more. If you turn the camera on and off with breaks in between I think you will get even more time.

They are great, but definitely don't last as long as they would on the PD and VX cameras. On my VX-2000 I could get about 8 hours with the 960.
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2006, 11:30 AM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 2,488
I haven't tested continuous recording, but I've shot several weddings (ceremony plus reception) with the 970 on an FX1 using the LCD screen and have yet to run down the battery -- and I shoot a lot of footage at weddings. This is a big improvement for me from my Canon GL1/GL2 cameras, which at best only ran a couple of hours on their large size batteries.
Kevin Shaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2006, 05:40 AM   #11
Tourist
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Devizes
Posts: 3
Green Screen ain bad on HDV

If you have been used to Beta, DigiBeta or DV then youll probably like what you see with Green screen and Blue Screen on HDV. It is great as far as I am concerned. I cant see much need for me to capture uncompressed. I have been happy with recording to HDV before compositing.
Matthew Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2006, 08:11 AM   #12
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 1,562
More chromakey thoughts

I've been getting great quality by shooting greenscreen in HDV, then scaling down to SD in either AfterEffects or FCP (set to a DVCPRO50 colour space). Far better and easier than even the best DSR570/Fujinon combo simply because of a better format.

I work with a very experienced DigiBeta lensman who's boggled at the quality HDV/SD can achieve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Damkoehler
PS - Have you or anybody else consistently used the Firestore?
Only when plugged into a mains source and I don't have access to a deck to record long chunks of conference. I was disappointed at the prospect of yet another bunch of batteries to buy at over-hyped prices, yet more reason to wake up in the middle of the night to change batteries on yet another charger...

I hope to find a way of powering the camera, a light, the wireless mic receiver and the firestore from one unified power source - though the idea of running around with a couple of PAG belts and a tricked out Z1 in a Fig Rig would look like a very bad parody of chewbacca. <g>
Matt Davis is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-Z1 / HDR-FX1

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:24 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network