Tape usage

[Fred Foronda]

I know I should put this in the tape forum but this is geared for the fx1/z1 users. what kind of tapes are you guy using. and how many pass can I do on tapes? I heard you can do as much as you want and it will still look as good as the first pass of the tape. thus far I am using only one pass of sony's dvm60 premium you know the blue packaged one and so far no problems.

thanks

[Joe Lumbroso]

I'm using single pass, Sony DVM-63HD. Because it says HD and I don't know any better.

[Matt Vanecek]

are what I'm using. The same tape stock I use in my GL2 (the 63MQ or whatever the number is). I haven't seen any documentation why we want to switch to a MiniDV tape with "HD" in the name, but I've seen several indicating that there really isn't any difference in tape capability. It's all 1s and 0s, and any digital tape can handle 1s and 0s...

ciao,
Matt

[David Dwyer]

Im using the Sony Digital Master 63DM.

Another question on tape and storage what are people doing keeping stuff on tapes or buying more HDDs?

[Daniel Lucas]

I've been reading what I can find on this and it seems the Digital Master offers somewhat more guarantee of minimal dropout etc issues. It boils down for me to how critical the footage I'm shooting is. If you can't afford for anything to go wrong with some precious material, get the "best" (whatever that is in your opinion) to be safest. If it's not as critical, use the cheaper stuff. The odds of the lesser models screwing up don't appear that high in general, though I still try to stick to the Sony HD tape just in case, though I'm not an expert on the technical aspects, just what I've read so far.

2 sites for good deals I've found so far:

www.taperesources.com have the Sony DVM-63HD on special right now for 11.95 each, in bundles of 5, one step down from the Digital Master PHDVM-63DM at 16.37. Free ship over $250.

www.tapeandmedia.com same tape 12.30 & 16.37 free ship over $500

If anyone knows a better place, I'ld like to hear back.

[Mitja Popovski]

i use cheap maxell for 2 EUR, and no dropout in 10 months, after at least 80 tapes with my Z1. Of course i never switch tape brands

[Mark Grant]

I've been using whatever came to hand, from Sony HDV tapes to $3 Panasonics to five-year-old Sony Excellence DV tapes. No problems so far.

[Mark Utley]

I've used nothing but Sony Premiums (the non-HDV ones) and they've been working great. I don't re-record on my tapes because I use a lot of archive footage.

[John Rofrano]

I use Sony DVM-63HD for the important stuff and Sony Excellence (DVM-60EXL) for every day use in my Z1. I would never use a tape more than once. I too get all my tapes from tapesandmedia.com.

Originally Posted by Matt Vanecek

I haven't seen any documentation why we want to switch to a MiniDV tape with "HD" in the name, but I've seen several indicating that there really isn't any difference in tape capability. It's all 1s and 0s, and any digital tape can handle 1s and 0s...

It's not about capability but rather about reliability. The better tapes have a more reliable backing, adhesive, and magnetic coating for less probability of dropouts. The problem with HDV is that it encodes a Group Of Pictures (GOP) which is usually 15 frames. That means a single dropout will ruin 15 frames because unlike DV where every frame is complete, only one in 15 are complete frames in HDV. The rest are delta frames and deltas of a dropout mean more bad frames. If it’s something you can’t re-shoot, you want to minimize the potential for dropouts.

~jr

[Fred Foronda]

So no one recomends a second pass on tapes?? I had experience a drop out when printing to tape once. Its very frustrating cause all that time put into printing to find a drop.

[Matt Davis]

Originally Posted by Fred Foronda

So no one recomends a second pass on tapes??

Christina Fox (www.urbanfox.tv) - a well respected trainer in the Camera/Director field - recommends used, checked and bulk-erased tape - each one comes with a report on where the dropouts are on the tape. However, demand for these seem to have outstripped supply.

Part of the theory was that you knew where the dropouts were, so just avoided those bits of tape. OTOH, it seems that the most dropouts occured in the first 30 secs of tape or so, hence the 'good tape hygene' of recording bars for the first minute of a new tape. Not for lineup purposes, but as a colourful alternative to the lens-cap.

I've had 2 non-critical picture dropouts in HDV so far, but have had quite a high number of audio dropouts on DVCAM tape (1-2 per 5-10 rolls) using DSR-570s, DSR-11 deck, my PDX-10 and Z1. So I personally continue to use Sony Premium tapes over Sony DVCAM...

[Stephen Armour]

B&H is cheaper right now on these tapes: Sony DVM-63HD ($10.29) ....

Stephen - ABE Prod. - Brazil

[David Tamés]

Originally Posted by John Rofrano

The problem with HDV is that it encodes a Group Of Pictures (GOP) which is usually 15 frames. That means a single dropout will ruin 15 frames because unlike DV where every frame is complete, only one in 15 are complete frames in HDV. The rest are delta frames and deltas of a dropout mean more bad frames. If it’s something you can’t re-shoot, you want to minimize the potential for dropouts.

John articulates very clearly the Achilles heel of HDV. Dropouts have the potential for being spectacularly dramatic, because of the GOP format.

I've been working on a documentary in HDV and the interviews are priceless to me, therefore, I've shelled out the extra dough for Sony PHDVM-63DM Digital Master tapes without hesitation. The boxes are also better at keeping dust out, but I take it Sony includes the larger boxes since you're paying so much for the tapes you might as well get a fancy box.

I've used both Digital Master and standard DV tape to shoot HDV and twice I've seen drop-outs with standard tape, never have I seen it with Digital Master, maybe it's just a placebo effect, maybe not. I've seen my share of drop-outs over the years and HDV is the format most prone to drop-outs I've seen since Hi8 (anyone remember Hi8?).

At NAB I saw that Fuji is planning to provide professsional HDV tape, a second player into the market might bring competive pressure on prices.

[Heath McKnight]

I love Sony tapes, because I've never had a problem with them. Even on my JVC and old Canon XL1, I use only Sony tapes. I tried all tapes, and they all ended up with some kind of problem. At the Film School where I work, we use the Z1 and DVX100a, and quit using Panasonic tapes within a month after all the problems (this was pre-Z1 for us).

The SONY PHDVM63DM DIGITAL MASTER 63 is very nice, less drop outs, etc. A bit pricey, but I like a lot of insurance (for real--ask my wife). In a pinch, and with DV cameras, I have used the SONY DVM-30PRL tapes for years. Not a bad price, either, unless you buy at Target, etc.

heath

[Joe Lawry]

sony dvm60s for everything - one pass only.