Newer Z1U seems more light sensitive than older Z1U at DVinfo.net

John Terendy · June 17th, 2006, 11:30 PM

I have 3 Z1U's, two rentals and my own here for a multicam shoot. I just set up the cameras and have noticed something odd. Two of the cameras seem to match right on, while the newest of the three seems much "brighter" than the other two. Was there an upgrade that I don't know about? It certainly seems at least a full f stop better. The serial numbers of the two that match are early cameras from the first iteration, while the "brighter" camera was purchased last fall around October. Anyone experience this? I have all of the settings exactly the same on all three !

Boyd Ostroff · June 18th, 2006, 05:32 AM

That's really interesting... but are you absolutely sure there isn't something set differently on the new camera? Was the zoom setting exactly the same? Remember, as you zoom in the widest f-number gets larger (IIRC, you can shoot at f1.6 full wide but only f2.8 at full telephoto).

But if they really have updated the camera, I wonder if they fixed this problem? http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=467892

If you have a LANC controller see if you can zoom slower than 22 seconds...

Peter Ferling · June 18th, 2006, 09:02 AM

I would be curious to know as well. Have you noted the serial numbers on those cams, (might help to establish a reference).

I have a multicam shoot next month, renting a pair of Z1U's also. (Which may lead to purchase pending on their performance).

Thanks

John Terendy · June 18th, 2006, 09:16 AM

The serial numbers for two of the cameras are much older than the third. I
am going to do more tests in the studio tomorrow (Monday) to determine
what's what.

Paul Dhadialla · June 19th, 2006, 12:33 AM

John - I bought mine just recently in April 2006.

I can't compare it with the older z1 releases - but with 9 DB of gain, lens open all the way - blackstrech on - the Z1 can see what my eyes in a small room 20x16 lit with just a 25 Watt bulb. Noise wise - very quiet.

I was shooting a wedding last week and the reception hall's lights were super dim (practically off). It is a nice large hall with capacity for 700+ people.
I had a 500 watt light pointing on the dance floor from a far back right to the camera angle - giving a nice even light to the floor and secondly as a hairlight. One 150 Watt diffused on the camera - tilted up over the crowd (not direct at faces) and camera on 6 DB. And the video is exposed very nicely - clean - no noise. (The lighting above was acceptible and actually didn't look that bright - this was a south asian wedding - lighting at that level or a little above is totally acceptable)

I could have easily pushed it to 9db - but then it would have looked brighter than it was there.

The iris i was controlling manually and i had some play to go up and down in many cases.

I did some tests later with a 10/20 Sony light only - and that is enough if you are shooting with 12-18 DB - but you will see some noise in that range - beware.

I have typically used dsr3xx series dvcam cams for all my work over the past years.

Given that you find the point where both cameras NOISE level is about the same - i'd say the DSR's are about 1 stop brighter overall.
At 12DB you will start to see some very light noise almost not there - at 15DB you see it there - probaly unacceptable for the nit picky (like me) 18DB you see noise - but honestly to get the shot - its ok - very good signal still - just snowy.

6 DB is practically just a good default to keep the camera at indoors period - there is no noise on the screen that i can see

I'm watching it on a 30 inch Sony CRT HDTV using component in.
I had blackstretch off- so the dark areas are slightly crushed. I will try with blackstretch on next time - should give me a slightly brighter picture and a better eval. of noise in the dim/greys.

But ya - just wanted to comment on light sensitivity since we're on the topic . Not much new otherwise i guess. :P

Paul

Dave Lammey · June 19th, 2006, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Terendy

I have 3 Z1U's, two rentals and my own here for a multicam shoot. I just set up the cameras and have noticed something odd. Two of the cameras seem to match right on, while the newest of the three seems much "brighter" than the other two. Was there an upgrade that I don't know about? It certainly seems at least a full f stop better. The serial numbers of the two that match are early cameras from the first iteration, while the "brighter" camera was purchased last fall around October. Anyone experience this? I have all of the settings exactly the same on all three !

Are you sure that the LCD on the new cam isn't set to a higher brightness position than the older cams?

Dick Mays · June 19th, 2006, 04:01 PM

When you say it appears brighter, does it appear brighter just on the LCD display? If you run composite to a monitor does it still appear brighter?

John Terendy · June 19th, 2006, 11:12 PM

We finally set up the three cameras in the studio today and ran a test for zebra and exposure. We set all 3 to auto iris and set the zebra to 70 ire and let the exposure settle. What we discovered is that they all had settled at the same iris and zebra display, but even though the LCD screens were all set the same, the two older cams seemed to have more "murky" LCDs compared to the newest. All of the recorded footage from all 3 played back fine though, on a 13" Sony component monitor. I'm wondering if the LCD screens on the newer Z1U is slightly different???

Mark Utley · June 20th, 2006, 01:55 AM

Strange. Maybe the LCD screens slowly fade over time?

Paul Doherty · June 20th, 2006, 02:37 AM

I was recently told by a dealer that LCD screens do indeed fade slightly with use. I was complaining that the LCD screen on the XL-H1 was too bright and made everything look overexposed (even when it wasn't). He said it would "bed down" and look less bright with a few months use.

I don't honestly know whether that is true or just sales talk, but it seems to fit what has been posted above.

Heath McKnight · July 9th, 2006, 07:33 AM

Closest I can answer this myself is that at the Film School I work for, we have two DVX100a cameras (and two FX1s and a Z1), and we had to replace one of the DVX100a's about 6 months after we bought them (XLR problem). Immediately, my students were concerned that the image quality was better on the new one, due to the LCD.

We hooked up the cams to the same calibrated monitor with the same settings and saw that indeed the LCD may have faded slightly.

I'll shoot an email to my dealer and see what they say in regards to the Z1. For now, maybe stick with a calibrated monitor, though the Z1's LCD can be calibrated. You may also try calling Sony's tech support, too.

heath

June 17th, 2006, 11:30 PM	#1
John Terendy Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Chicago U.S.A Posts: 28	Newer Z1U seems more light sensitive than older Z1U I have 3 Z1U's, two rentals and my own here for a multicam shoot. I just set up the cameras and have noticed something odd. Two of the cameras seem to match right on, while the newest of the three seems much "brighter" than the other two. Was there an upgrade that I don't know about? It certainly seems at least a full f stop better. The serial numbers of the two that match are early cameras from the first iteration, while the "brighter" camera was purchased last fall around October. Anyone experience this? I have all of the settings exactly the same on all three !

June 18th, 2006, 09:02 AM	#3
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	I would be curious to know as well. Have you noted the serial numbers on those cams, (might help to establish a reference). I have a multicam shoot next month, renting a pair of Z1U's also. (Which may lead to purchase pending on their performance). Thanks __________________ Pete Ferling http://ferling.net It's never a mistake if you learn something new from it. -------------------------------------------

June 18th, 2006, 09:16 AM	#4
John Terendy Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Chicago U.S.A Posts: 28	Serial Numbers The serial numbers for two of the cameras are much older than the third. I am going to do more tests in the studio tomorrow (Monday) to determine what's what.

June 20th, 2006, 01:55 AM	#9
Mark Utley Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 479	Strange. Maybe the LCD screens slowly fade over time? __________________ Mark Utley

July 9th, 2006, 07:33 AM	#11
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Closest I can answer this myself is that at the Film School I work for, we have two DVX100a cameras (and two FX1s and a Z1), and we had to replace one of the DVX100a's about 6 months after we bought them (XLR problem). Immediately, my students were concerned that the image quality was better on the new one, due to the LCD. We hooked up the cams to the same calibrated monitor with the same settings and saw that indeed the LCD may have faded slightly. I'll shoot an email to my dealer and see what they say in regards to the Z1. For now, maybe stick with a calibrated monitor, though the Z1's LCD can be calibrated. You may also try calling Sony's tech support, too. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

June 18th, 2006, 05:32 AM	#2
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	That's really interesting... but are you absolutely sure there isn't something set differently on the new camera? Was the zoom setting exactly the same? Remember, as you zoom in the widest f-number gets larger (IIRC, you can shoot at f1.6 full wide but only f2.8 at full telephoto). But if they really have updated the camera, I wonder if they fixed this problem? http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=467892 If you have a LANC controller see if you can zoom slower than 22 seconds...

June 19th, 2006, 12:33 AM	#5
Paul Dhadialla Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 143	John - I bought mine just recently in April 2006. I can't compare it with the older z1 releases - but with 9 DB of gain, lens open all the way - blackstrech on - the Z1 can see what my eyes in a small room 20x16 lit with just a 25 Watt bulb. Noise wise - very quiet. I was shooting a wedding last week and the reception hall's lights were super dim (practically off). It is a nice large hall with capacity for 700+ people. I had a 500 watt light pointing on the dance floor from a far back right to the camera angle - giving a nice even light to the floor and secondly as a hairlight. One 150 Watt diffused on the camera - tilted up over the crowd (not direct at faces) and camera on 6 DB. And the video is exposed very nicely - clean - no noise. (The lighting above was acceptible and actually didn't look that bright - this was a south asian wedding - lighting at that level or a little above is totally acceptable) I could have easily pushed it to 9db - but then it would have looked brighter than it was there. The iris i was controlling manually and i had some play to go up and down in many cases. I did some tests later with a 10/20 Sony light only - and that is enough if you are shooting with 12-18 DB - but you will see some noise in that range - beware. I have typically used dsr3xx series dvcam cams for all my work over the past years. Given that you find the point where both cameras NOISE level is about the same - i'd say the DSR's are about 1 stop brighter overall. At 12DB you will start to see some very light noise almost not there - at 15DB you see it there - probaly unacceptable for the nit picky (like me) 18DB you see noise - but honestly to get the shot - its ok - very good signal still - just snowy. 6 DB is practically just a good default to keep the camera at indoors period - there is no noise on the screen that i can see I'm watching it on a 30 inch Sony CRT HDTV using component in. I had blackstretch off- so the dark areas are slightly crushed. I will try with blackstretch on next time - should give me a slightly brighter picture and a better eval. of noise in the dim/greys. But ya - just wanted to comment on light sensitivity since we're on the topic . Not much new otherwise i guess. :P Paul

June 19th, 2006, 04:01 PM	#7
Dick Mays Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 690	When you say it appears brighter, does it appear brighter just on the LCD display? If you run composite to a monitor does it still appear brighter?

June 19th, 2006, 11:12 PM	#8
John Terendy Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Chicago U.S.A Posts: 28	We finally set up the three cameras in the studio today and ran a test for zebra and exposure. We set all 3 to auto iris and set the zebra to 70 ire and let the exposure settle. What we discovered is that they all had settled at the same iris and zebra display, but even though the LCD screens were all set the same, the two older cams seemed to have more "murky" LCDs compared to the newest. All of the recorded footage from all 3 played back fine though, on a 13" Sony component monitor. I'm wondering if the LCD screens on the newer Z1U is slightly different???

June 20th, 2006, 02:37 AM	#10
Paul Doherty Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sherburn, England Posts: 136	I was recently told by a dealer that LCD screens do indeed fade slightly with use. I was complaining that the LCD screen on the XL-H1 was too bright and made everything look overexposed (even when it wasn't). He said it would "bed down" and look less bright with a few months use. I don't honestly know whether that is true or just sales talk, but it seems to fit what has been posted above.