progressive with FX1 at DVinfo.net

Andzei Matsukevits · November 14th, 2006, 12:06 PM

Can i shoot in progressive scan with Sony FX1 and if yes, how does it look?
Have to shoot some hotel rooms, no fast movement. Heard from somewhere, that its not possible to record progressive image on mini dv tape, is it true?
btw, should i get special HDV tapes for filming HDV or it would be same result if i was filming on regular mini dv tape?

thanks

Chris Barcellos · November 14th, 2006, 12:59 PM

1. Any tape okay. Try not to mix, keep with one brand, if possible.

2. FX1 does not have progressive. It does have Cineframe30, and Cineframe24 ( in the US version ), which gives similar results... There hasn't been a lot good said about it. Test both out yourself. Select in the profile menus.

Leo Pepingco · November 15th, 2006, 08:50 PM

I wouldnt discount the Cineframe all too easily. I've seen a lot of indie films and the quality side by side with an XL2 was pretty decent and even at reasonable movements were hard to tell apart.

The only downside to the Cineframe is just the loss of some vertical resolution. Which can be a pain for some who aim for that crisp picture. But personally, if you can get away with Cineframe, its all the better - the picture is still acceptable and often, hardly recognisable.

Robert Kirkpatrick · November 16th, 2006, 09:02 AM

I like the Cineframe 30 on the FX1. I thought it looked excellent, and even downcoverted to SD, the footage looked good. I usually shoot frame mode on most of my short films, including on the GS400, and the FX1 smoked it.

I don't like the Cineframe 24 on the FX1. It really does cause a weird stutter. However, if you use a Cineform product to convert the Sony Cineframe 24, it looks nice. To the discerning eye, it's not as nice as say the HVX200, but it's still pretty sweet. For the price point, it's excellent.

I've got two short films on my website that show both effects. The 48 Hour film "Unnatural Disaster" was shot Cineframe 30, and downconverted to SD for editing. The DV Challenge film "The Autumn Queen" was shot Cineframe 24, converted over with Connect HD to a Cineform format, and edited in Vegas. It was my first experiment with greenscreening as well.

Chris Barcellos · November 16th, 2006, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo Pepingco

I wouldnt discount the Cineframe all too easily. I've seen a lot of indie films and the quality side by side with an XL2 was pretty decent and even at reasonable movements were hard to tell apart.

The only downside to the Cineframe is just the loss of some vertical resolution. Which can be a pain for some who aim for that crisp picture. But personally, if you can get away with Cineframe, its all the better - the picture is still acceptable and often, hardly recognisable.

Okay, Leo and Robert, now you are going to get me to fool around with it a bit :)

Meryem Ersoz · November 16th, 2006, 11:38 AM

i have to second the opinions on cineframe 30. it's a nice tool to have cineframe 24 is kind of a bust, more of an odd special effect than a frame option. but cineframe 30 can be a nice, softer signature look that maintains the superior HDV colorspace.

one other nice option is, if you don't want progressive necessarily, but a softer, more pleasing image from your FX-1, is the schneider black frost filter...

Chris Barcellos · November 16th, 2006, 11:47 AM

The word I got with FX1 months ago about shooting for 24p, was to shoot in 60i, at 1/60, and then convert in post to 24p, using a commercially available program... Haven't had a need for it to follow up, but there is that option... Someone here will remember name of program...

Robert Kirkpatrick · November 16th, 2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

The word I got with FX1 months ago about shooting for 24p, was to shoot in 60i, at 1/60, and then convert in post to 24p, using a commercially available program... Haven't had a need for it to follow up, but there is that option... Someone here will remember name of program...

Nattress (a plug-in for FCP) or Dvfilmmaker. I think Vegas does a good conversion as well. The method you listed is considered the best method, but I haven't had time to test it out. I just prefer Connect HD, because I don't like adding any more to the final render. I'm weird that way.

Marco Wagner · November 16th, 2006, 04:27 PM

Say I have the FX1 and shoot in 24F, can I import that into Premiere Pro on a 23.976 timeline or does it have to be 29.97?

Leo Pepingco · November 16th, 2006, 04:33 PM

I would be interested if anyone knew a Premire Pro 2.0 converter plug-in (Like Magic Bullet) that is made for the PP2 program.

On the main topic at hand, I'm in a PAL zone, so I've never seen Cineframe 30 before as here Down Under, we ONLY have Cineframe 25. I doubt this would be as bad as people say Cineframe 24 is, but since its the only option avaliable for us, I'm assuming its probably closer to the Cine30 mode as although I notice a judder, Its not something that I find strange (as is the complaint for cine24.)

I would like to know if anyone has compared or seen the 24, 25 and 30 modes of the FX1 and confirm for me thats always bugged me - Bow big a difference is there between the modes.

Andzei Matsukevits · November 17th, 2006, 12:31 PM

we were shooting today with fx1(pal) and i couldn't find the cineframe option. So i went without it. But where is it located?

Boyd Ostroff · November 17th, 2006, 12:39 PM

Press the picture profile button on the rear of the camera, select a profile, then choose SETTING. You will then have to scroll way down the list of options until you find CINEFRAME. Since you have a PAL FX1, I believe the only choice will be Cineframe 25.

Andzei Matsukevits · November 18th, 2006, 03:27 AM

btw, if i have shot in the regular way, i mean without cineframe settings. What could i do in post to make it better? Just put it into progressive? Any other possibilities?

Boyd Ostroff · November 18th, 2006, 09:12 AM

There are a number of software solutions, depending on the computer you're using. DVfilm Maker is one of them which works on both Macs and PC's: http://www.dvfilm.com/maker/

Nattress Film Effects is one of the Mac solutions: http://www.nattress.com/Products/fil...ilmeffects.htm

Greg LeBlanc · December 3rd, 2006, 03:25 PM

I have the HVR-Z1U and I have questions about Premiere Pro 2.0 Capture. I shot in CF24 on the camera in HD Mode. When capturing in Premiere, I downconverted from within the camera to SD. The preset that I used to capture with in Premiere was the 24P setting. The video was really choppy and had a really bad ghosting effect with any kind of movement. A second attempt, I did the same settings in the camera using PP4 which uses Cineframe24 and downcoverted to SD as well. The only difference was the Premiere Pro Capture preset. This time I used the standard capture setting of DV NTSC Widescreen just as if I had shot with standard video settings, not using the PP4 Cineframe24. The video came out PERFECT. It looked identicle to a video shot in 24P. Is that how you are actually supposed to capture it in Premiere when you shoot in Cineframe mode? It seems like it is since the outcome was so perfect. Keep in mind that I am pretty much a novice to all of this. Any input would be GREATLY appreciated.

November 14th, 2006, 12:06 PM	#1
Andzei Matsukevits Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Tallinn, Estonia Posts: 300	progressive with FX1 Can i shoot in progressive scan with Sony FX1 and if yes, how does it look? Have to shoot some hotel rooms, no fast movement. Heard from somewhere, that its not possible to record progressive image on mini dv tape, is it true? btw, should i get special HDV tapes for filming HDV or it would be same result if i was filming on regular mini dv tape? thanks

November 14th, 2006, 12:59 PM	#2
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	1. Any tape okay. Try not to mix, keep with one brand, if possible. 2. FX1 does not have progressive. It does have Cineframe30, and Cineframe24 ( in the US version ), which gives similar results... There hasn't been a lot good said about it. Test both out yourself. Select in the profile menus. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

November 15th, 2006, 08:50 PM	#3
Leo Pepingco Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 275	I wouldnt discount the Cineframe all too easily. I've seen a lot of indie films and the quality side by side with an XL2 was pretty decent and even at reasonable movements were hard to tell apart. The only downside to the Cineframe is just the loss of some vertical resolution. Which can be a pain for some who aim for that crisp picture. But personally, if you can get away with Cineframe, its all the better - the picture is still acceptable and often, hardly recognisable. __________________ I told you to get an alabi

November 16th, 2006, 11:47 AM	#7
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	The word I got with FX1 months ago about shooting for 24p, was to shoot in 60i, at 1/60, and then convert in post to 24p, using a commercially available program... Haven't had a need for it to follow up, but there is that option... Someone here will remember name of program... __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

November 16th, 2006, 04:27 PM	#9
Marco Wagner Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Saint Cloud, Florida Posts: 1,043	Say I have the FX1 and shoot in 24F, can I import that into Premiere Pro on a 23.976 timeline or does it have to be 29.97? __________________ www.facebook.com/projectspecto

November 16th, 2006, 09:02 AM	#4
Robert Kirkpatrick Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 199	I like the Cineframe 30 on the FX1. I thought it looked excellent, and even downcoverted to SD, the footage looked good. I usually shoot frame mode on most of my short films, including on the GS400, and the FX1 smoked it. I don't like the Cineframe 24 on the FX1. It really does cause a weird stutter. However, if you use a Cineform product to convert the Sony Cineframe 24, it looks nice. To the discerning eye, it's not as nice as say the HVX200, but it's still pretty sweet. For the price point, it's excellent. I've got two short films on my website that show both effects. The 48 Hour film "Unnatural Disaster" was shot Cineframe 30, and downconverted to SD for editing. The DV Challenge film "The Autumn Queen" was shot Cineframe 24, converted over with Connect HD to a Cineform format, and edited in Vegas. It was my first experiment with greenscreening as well.

November 16th, 2006, 11:38 AM	#6
Meryem Ersoz Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,015	i have to second the opinions on cineframe 30. it's a nice tool to have cineframe 24 is kind of a bust, more of an odd special effect than a frame option. but cineframe 30 can be a nice, softer signature look that maintains the superior HDV colorspace. one other nice option is, if you don't want progressive necessarily, but a softer, more pleasing image from your FX-1, is the schneider black frost filter...

November 16th, 2006, 04:33 PM	#10
Leo Pepingco Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 275	I would be interested if anyone knew a Premire Pro 2.0 converter plug-in (Like Magic Bullet) that is made for the PP2 program. On the main topic at hand, I'm in a PAL zone, so I've never seen Cineframe 30 before as here Down Under, we ONLY have Cineframe 25. I doubt this would be as bad as people say Cineframe 24 is, but since its the only option avaliable for us, I'm assuming its probably closer to the Cine30 mode as although I notice a judder, Its not something that I find strange (as is the complaint for cine24.) I would like to know if anyone has compared or seen the 24, 25 and 30 modes of the FX1 and confirm for me thats always bugged me - Bow big a difference is there between the modes. __________________ I told you to get an alabi

November 17th, 2006, 12:31 PM	#11
Andzei Matsukevits Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Tallinn, Estonia Posts: 300	we were shooting today with fx1(pal) and i couldn't find the cineframe option. So i went without it. But where is it located?

November 17th, 2006, 12:39 PM	#12
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	Press the picture profile button on the rear of the camera, select a profile, then choose SETTING. You will then have to scroll way down the list of options until you find CINEFRAME. Since you have a PAL FX1, I believe the only choice will be Cineframe 25.

November 18th, 2006, 03:27 AM	#13
Andzei Matsukevits Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Tallinn, Estonia Posts: 300	btw, if i have shot in the regular way, i mean without cineframe settings. What could i do in post to make it better? Just put it into progressive? Any other possibilities?

November 18th, 2006, 09:12 AM	#14
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	There are a number of software solutions, depending on the computer you're using. DVfilm Maker is one of them which works on both Macs and PC's: http://www.dvfilm.com/maker/ Nattress Film Effects is one of the Mac solutions: http://www.nattress.com/Products/fil...ilmeffects.htm

December 3rd, 2006, 03:25 PM	#15
Greg LeBlanc New Boot Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 11	Cineframe24 and the Capture Process I have the HVR-Z1U and I have questions about Premiere Pro 2.0 Capture. I shot in CF24 on the camera in HD Mode. When capturing in Premiere, I downconverted from within the camera to SD. The preset that I used to capture with in Premiere was the 24P setting. The video was really choppy and had a really bad ghosting effect with any kind of movement. A second attempt, I did the same settings in the camera using PP4 which uses Cineframe24 and downcoverted to SD as well. The only difference was the Premiere Pro Capture preset. This time I used the standard capture setting of DV NTSC Widescreen just as if I had shot with standard video settings, not using the PP4 Cineframe24. The video came out PERFECT. It looked identicle to a video shot in 24P. Is that how you are actually supposed to capture it in Premiere when you shoot in Cineframe mode? It seems like it is since the outcome was so perfect. Keep in mind that I am pretty much a novice to all of this. Any input would be GREATLY appreciated.