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Sony HVR-Z1 / HDR-FX1
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CCD HDV camcorder.


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Old November 16th, 2006, 05:31 PM   #1
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downconvert and edit

If I downconvert the footage in camera, then edit it. When I recapture in HDV, will I have to edit the footage all over again?
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Old November 16th, 2006, 08:36 PM   #2
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I would guess it depends on the software you are using to edit. I use Avid Xpress Pro, and it lets you do exactly as you describe without reediting. Which is great, because trying to edit in native HDV demands a fast processor.

I would research HDV workflow for whatever NLE you are using. There should be lots of info online, if not right in the manual or help menu itself.
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Old November 17th, 2006, 11:52 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Riggs
When I recapture in HDV, will I have to edit the footage all over again?
In Final Cut Pro, with good time code, NO. :)

I use Final Cut Pro. So long as I've got continuous time code on my tapes, I can 'export' my DV edit into an HDV project, open it, then reconnect every one of my clips into HDV. It's not exactly as simple as that, but pretty close.

If you have an older G4 Mac, this will be a great way to go - but two big warnings: 1) Make sure you have continuous timecode. Do anything to ensure it's continuous. Anything. ii) Don't use Time Of Day Code as this fubars your continuous timecode mantra.
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Old November 18th, 2006, 06:03 AM   #4
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I am using Premiere Pro 2 at the moment, any suggestions for that app?
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Old November 20th, 2006, 05:55 PM   #5
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I haven't tried this yet, but PPro will export an EDL (Edit Decision List) from your DV project. You should be able to open an HDV project, recapture the footage as HDV, import the EDL and have it recreate the edit.
I'm sure it won't be quite that easy or complete, but that's the only potential pathway that I know of in PPro.
If there is a better way, I would love to hear about it. This would be a good question for the Adobe PPro Forum.
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Old November 21st, 2006, 12:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Young
I haven't tried this yet, but PPro will export an EDL (Edit Decision List) from your DV project. You should be able to open an HDV project, recapture the footage as HDV, import the EDL and have it recreate the edit.
I'm sure it won't be quite that easy or complete, but that's the only potential pathway that I know of in PPro.
If there is a better way, I would love to hear about it. This would be a good question for the Adobe PPro Forum.
I have given this a try and it is somewhat a pain in the ass due to non-continuous time code issues.

My problem was due to improper workflow as I
-transfer to hdv in premier
-usd hdv split to split the hdv file into smaller files, whereby this destroys continuous timecode.

I also then retransfered from pp2.0 in dv mode and turned on scene split which split hte dv file into smaller files, but keeping timecode intact.

therefore when when pluggin in the hdv files into the edl generated by the dv project, nothing matched.

one easy yet annoying way would be to create dv files out of all the split hdv files, and THEN editing with these dv files. this way the time codes would likely match properly. i guess you could use procoder to do this in batch, the dv file donest need to be good qulaity either, as long as the length and timecode is an exact match for its corresponding hdv file, that is all that matters.

as for trying to edit a 60 minute hdv file and hten matchign up an hour long dv file i would highly recommend against it. working with large files always ALWAYS (well for me) slows the system down greatly, introduces audio out of sync issues (dont ask me why), and more importantly wastes disc space since alot of hte scenes and shots should be discarded just to save hard disk space.

for simply linear editing, with cuts, dissolve i edit in native hdv on my pentium 930 with 2 gigs of ram. however if i have large projects or projects that involve many clips from all over hte place it is well worth the time for me to keep track of all the hdv clips i need to use, size them down to dv and edit from there. i would guess that even cineform wouldnt be that good for me since i use magic bullet alot and magic bullet rendering @ hdv resoltuion is just atrocious.
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Old November 21st, 2006, 08:29 PM   #7
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I'm wondering if using the "scene detect" function of the Cineform Aspect capture software wouldn't eliminate the timecode discrepancy. I would expect it to cut the scenes on the same TC as PPro scene detect does during DV downconvert capture. I hope something like that will work.
My idea of "futureproofing" my projects definitely did not include having to re-edit them from scratch.

Another approach I just stumbled upon: You can open a new HDV project and import any PPro DV project into it. When you open the timeline sequence the entire edit is opened as 720x480 in the 1080 size frame of the timeline. I'm thinking that the next step would be to "offline" all of the video, then delete it or move it, and batch recapture the clips as 1080i from the HDV tapes. This last step would be the trick. If PPro or Cineform HD Link will batch capture the clips accurately it seems like you would have your 1080 edit pretty much in the bag.

Last edited by Robert Young; November 21st, 2006 at 10:27 PM.
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 08:08 AM   #8
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Robert,

I use the workflow you described for some projects as I stated in another Joe Riggs' thread.

The big question is the one you wrote: is it frame accurate? From my experience it must not be off by a large number of frames as I didnt notice it.

Its still a time-consuming workflow but it works. It seems a lot more straight-forward than using EDL to me.

I only tried it starting with DV and recapturing in HDV. The other way around is a lot trickier (what was adobe thinking giving up scene detect in HDV???)

The alternative I see is using AspectHD and hoping that your system can handle it and that scene detect works properly.

HDVSplit is really a life saver to me because editing full tape clips would make me reconsider my whole editing workflow.

Paulo

EDIT: you dont need Aspect for this approach. Adobe HDV Capture will seek every TC. It implies a lot of forward and rewind on the deck via device control but its an automatic batch capture all the way.
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 05:25 PM   #9
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Looking at the PPro 2.0 manual, you should be able to offline the DV clips in the project window of the HDV project, highlite them, >FILE> BATCH CAPTURE and it should recapture them as HDV from the original tapes and drop them into you edit on the timeline.
Just because it should do it doesn't mean it will. I'll have to try it and see.
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Old November 23rd, 2006, 03:55 AM   #10
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Cool, I shot my original HDV footage with the Z1U, if I downconvert with the HC-1 or HC-3, will I lose quality vs. downconverting with the Z1U?

Thank You
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Old November 23rd, 2006, 11:17 AM   #11
 
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No. The downconversion is identical from camera to camera. Haven't specifically tested the decoders for any specific quality difference, but did use an HC3 as a "deck" for a while prior to purchasing my M25u
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Old November 24th, 2006, 11:07 AM   #12
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I feel it's better to capture and edit in native HDV and then down-convert to SD for output. Higher quality, plus if you can deliver in HD down the road, you'll have it ready to go.

Spot has proven time and again that down-converting from the deck or camera to your NLE will present lower quality SD footage than capturing and editing in native HDV until the end. I've also seen footage shot and captured in both HDV and DV, edited natively then outputted in DV (remember, the HDV was down-converted in the NLE), and the HDV footage in DV resolution looked much better than the native DV footage. However, down-converting the HDV footage from the camera made it look less sharp.

So, shoot, capture and edit in HDV, then output to DV/SD. Better resolution.

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