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Sony HVR-Z5 / HDR-FX1000
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CMOS HDV camcorder.


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Old December 16th, 2008, 12:23 AM   #1
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Wow... Rolling shutter

Now I know what people have been talking about. Here's a clip from Senderey Video who said he couldn't log in here and we could post it. Although some nice footage you can sure see the rolling shutter when other camera flashes go off. I was thinking about adding this camera or the Z5 to my arsenal along with the my XH-A1 but now having second thoughts.

Jennifer & Jonathan 11/26/08 on Vimeo
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Old December 16th, 2008, 12:29 AM   #2
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that's it? The tiny effect and you are calling it all off? If you hadn't pointed it out I wouldn't have noticed. Do you think the customer noticed? I doubt it. Or more importantly, if they did notice, would they even care? The effect only last for the length of the flash..
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Old December 16th, 2008, 01:13 AM   #3
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unless you try the camera out then you will realize it's not an issue at all
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Old December 16th, 2008, 04:38 AM   #4
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rolling shuuter

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Originally Posted by Robert Bec View Post
unless you try the camera out then you will realize it's not an issue at all

I reckon in editing it may be a pain seeing it all the time but I guess we will have to live with it.

Is the rolling Shutter only in HD but not standard Def?
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Old December 16th, 2008, 06:07 AM   #5
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Rolling Shutter will be a issue when you edit slow motion point where photo flash is just flash at the images you like. Normal playback it won't notice at all.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 03:06 PM   #6
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No customer will ever notice this. I have the FX7 and it only shows in slow motion, but in a way its like a "special effect" in the movie clip. Look at the advantages of these cameras and forget about the "rolling shutter" effect.

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Old December 16th, 2008, 06:32 PM   #7
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It is a limitation. Like all things it is a case of living with the limitations. You could have a sensor that doesn't have these issues, but it would either cost a lot more, or would suffer from much lower resolution and other issues.

Think like your audience as well. A lot of things that you notice as a shooter and as an editor nobody else who isn't involved in video does.

The time to start really questioning is when the client does.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 07:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Duffy View Post
Is the rolling Shutter only in HD but not standard Def?
It's a CMOS issue, not an HD issue.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 12:51 AM   #9
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Points well taken...
I didn't through it out yet, but I'm waiting to see more footage and reviews. Thanks for your input, I wasn't thinking as a customer. The more I thought about it I'm not around flash photography much as yet, but I keep contemplating going back to weddings. I used to take stills back in the film days, very stressful. I'm hoping video is not as stressful.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 12:59 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K.C. Luke View Post
Rolling Shutter will be a issue when you edit slow motion point where photo flash is just flash at the images you like. Normal playback it won't notice at all.
After watching it again, you're right it was the slow motion where it showed up the most otherwise it wasn't nearly as noticeable.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 08:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Barnhill View Post
...I used to take stills back in the film days, very stressful. I'm hoping video is not as stressful.
Scott
Video is much, much more stressful than still photography but much, much more enjoyable!

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Old December 18th, 2008, 01:08 PM   #12
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I'm with Scott, and I don't like it one little bit. It's bad enough at normal speed, but in slo-mo it just looks silly only lighting half or 1/3rd the frame.

Yes it's a limitation of the current CMOS state of play. They bring other advantages over CCDs, but in paparazzi situations they falter.

tom.
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Old December 19th, 2008, 06:04 PM   #13
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Rolling Shutter I face the problem sine I get my 1st HDV cam FX7 than V1....all this 2 cam not really good on cmos. Very bad. Even EX1 do have much stronger lighting half or 1/3rd the frame as Tom say.

As I knew Videographer eyes do see much more than those normal eyes. I'm right :)

Cmos cam when is not photo flashing, I can say is good HDV images. Better than Old HAD 3CCD chip. Just to need 2 type of cam. CMOS or HAD 3CCD.
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Old December 19th, 2008, 10:53 PM   #14
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I will go on record saying that I do not like the banding if have seen on some videos. I am not sure a client would notice it, but I do and I don't care for it. I could probably figure out how to hide it in post but it would be better if editors didn't have to figure out how to hide unwanted artifacts. Editors already have too much to do.

But I have noticed on many sample videos that some of the time the CMOS cameras treat flashes just like any other CCD camera. While, occasionally, you get the objectionable band across a frame. I don't deal with flashes in my taping but I am curious if anyone has done any experimentation to try to figure out why it does it sometimes and not others. I have seen a sample of lightning recorded with a CMOS camera and it came out looking great and I have seen lightning shot by someone else with the same model camera and that footage was totally un-usable. Why the difference? Have any of you that are having these problems tried to figure out why it does it sometimes and not others? Is there some setting that could minimize or eliminate the problem? Iris opened up or closed down? Shutter faster or slower? Is it worse or better on auto settings or manual settings? There has to be some reason why it doesn't do it 100% of the time.
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Old December 19th, 2008, 11:07 PM   #15
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Intensity of light and duration.

When the flash constitutes the bulk of the light hitting the sensors AND that flash is shorter than the time required to scan the sensors, then you get banding.
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