Sell that Z1! at DVinfo.net

Martin Duffy · January 26th, 2009, 12:13 AM

Just editing footage filmed 4 weeks ago via a FX1000 and Z1.

I film dance concerts 2 cameras and have about 50 or so up my sleeve. It never ceases to amaze me how one can think he knows all the downfalls of a good production. There are rules that can't be broken and well in this case I have broken a golden rule and I am sure the client and the 80+ people who have purchased a DVD may say top me or to themselves "mmm that sort of doesn't look right".

All I can say is don't film dual cameras with different brands or even differnet model cameras.

In this case the FX1000 is making the Z1 look very average indeed and cutting between cameras makes me cringe!

I am simply amazed at the difference between the Z1 and FX1000 in low light especially as the light becomes really low.

I had held off going 16:9 and HD because of this and wow I would rather be looking at my old 4:3 TRV900 any day. The Z1 is nothing but a dud in this department!

If you film dance concerts then ditch the Z1 now!

Jeff Harper · January 26th, 2009, 01:56 AM

I appreciate your post Martin. I was thinking about buying a Z1 to use as a third camera, for use in wedding ceremony only. While my third came purchase is not imminent yet, I'd probably be happiest with a Z5 anyway. Thanks for sharing.

Ken Ross · January 26th, 2009, 07:25 AM

Martin, I'm assuming you did this event in 16:9 HD? If you did it in 4:3 SD or 4:3 down-rez'd HD, how would you say the quality of the 1000 footage looked compared to your old TRV900?

I actually still have one of those little beasts too that I use for occasional playback. Of course the firewire port is dead as is common in Sony mini-DV cams.

Michael Liebergot · January 26th, 2009, 08:09 AM

So Martin are you saying that the FX1000 was that much better than the Z1?

Or was your comment just based on HDV and low light shooting?

Ken Ross · January 26th, 2009, 08:30 AM

Mike, when I was at Sony Style last week, I shot a test scene with the FX1000. I had previously shot the same scene with the FX1 about 2 weeks prior before they had the 1000 on display.

Comparing the two scenes, the FX1000 was significantly better. It had better sharpness, detail, color and a better ability to hold highlights before blowing out.

Michael Liebergot · January 26th, 2009, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

Mike, when I was at Sony Style last week, I shot a test scene with the FX1000. I had previously shot the same scene with the FX1 about 2 weeks prior before they had the 1000 on display.

Comparing the two scenes, the FX1000 was significantly better. It had better sharpness, detail, color and a better ability to hold highlights before blowing out.

Ken, thank you for the update.
I am in the process of obtaining a FX1000 to add to my crop of FX1's.
If I find that the FX1000 is that much improved over my FX1's then I will most likely sell one or all of my FX1's and replace them with FX1000's and maybe a Z5 in the mix.

This will sound stupid, but one of the things I am looking to see, is if I can modify the FX1000 to take a Z1 or Z5 mic mount. I was easily able to modify my FX1's to take a Z1 mic mount, and it has helped me to obtain much more mounting options for my shotgun mic, wireless and lights. It's not a deal breaker though as I was looking at picking up a Lightwave Minimount to place on the cameras coldshoe if desired.

Tom Hardwick · January 26th, 2009, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Duffy

If you film dance concerts then ditch the Z1 now!

Well I film 'dance concerts' at the end of every wedding, using an antiquated Z1 in 'romantic' (dim) lighting. There's simply nothing that Z1 can't handle, and certainly adding a stop to it's sensitivity levels (by chopping it in for a Z5, for instance) ain't going to change the way my films look in the slightest.

We have to put things in perspective chaps. Every new cam will move the goal posts forward a couple of metres, but will you or I (the videographers) keep up?

tom.

Martin Duffy · January 26th, 2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Liebergot

So Martin are you saying that the FX1000 was that much better than the Z1? Or was your comment just based on HDV and low light shooting?

The footage was shot in SD and 16:9. It blows the Z1 away when the lighting gets real dim.

In better light the Z1 is fine but for me I need two matching cameras and so I think another Z5 or FX1000 is on the way,

Martin Duffy · January 26th, 2009, 04:26 PM

[QUOTE=Ken Ross;1001220]Martin, I'm assuming you did this event in 16:9 HD? If you did it in 4:3 SD or 4:3 down-rez'd HD, how would you say the quality of the 1000 footage looked compared to your old TRV900?

Ken I haven't compared footage to the 900 yet but will later today.

The dance concert ws filmed in 16:9 SD. I don't understand why you mention 4:3 SD. Why would I film 4:3 and not 16:9? Am I missing something here?

Martin.

Ken Ross · January 26th, 2009, 08:23 PM

Martin, only because I don't know what type of TVs your clients have. If 4:3 TVs were the rule where you are, I could see you shooting in 4:3. It's the very reason I shoot corporate videos in 4:3 where these displays are still dominant.

Of course if clients who had 4:3 TVs didn't mind letterboxing, then even there it would be a non-issue. But some people are still very funny about those 'black bars top & bottom'.

Martin Duffy · January 26th, 2009, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

But some people are still very funny about those 'black bars top & bottom'.

I produce stacks of individual event/dance/football game on DVD & get very few people asking me about this.

Ken Ross · January 27th, 2009, 06:17 AM

They're either owners of 16:9 TVs or they're more 'enlightened'.

Martin Duffy · January 27th, 2009, 10:12 PM

UPDATE TO ORIGINAL POST:

Since raising concerns a few days ago about the Z1 low light capability I have since discovered that the cameraman who used the Z1 on the night must have had the brightness on the LCD screen turned up very high.

This is very easy to do on the Z1 as the LCD brightness control buttons are next to the volume level buttons.

The very same thing happened to me a few weeks earlier using the same camera but I discovered the problem as I was referring back to "auto" iris which is always pretty close to being the correct F stop to use.

My friend is very experienced to a point. He simply started filming thinking he had the camera looking OK and yet didn't know the LCD was cranked high.

The result under exposed shots which I will have to tweak in post.

Sorry to raise the alarm. The Z1 is not that bad after all!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Duffy

Just editing footage filmed 4 weeks ago via a FX1000 and Z1.

I film dance concerts 2 cameras and have about 50 or so up my sleeve. It never ceases to amaze me how one can think he knows all the downfalls of a good production. There are rules that can't be broken and well in this case I have broken a golden rule and I am sure the client and the 80+ people who have purchased a DVD may say top me or to themselves "mmm that sort of doesn't look right".

All I can say is don't film dual cameras with different brands or even differnet model cameras.

In this case the FX1000 is making the Z1 look very average indeed and cutting between cameras makes me cringe!

I am simply amazed at the difference between the Z1 and FX1000 in low light especially as the light becomes really low.

I had held off going 16:9 and HD because of this and wow I would rather be looking at my old 4:3 TRV900 any day. The Z1 is nothing but a dud in this department!

If you film dance concerts then ditch the Z1 now!

Marcus Martell · January 28th, 2009, 09:30 AM

Hallo,so u guys owner of the new z5 think that for me that i ve purchased few weeks ago a z1 is worth to sell it and go 4 a new z5?I was worried about the rolling shutter issue..What u can tell me about this?
Another question:When u push the auto gain-iris button on the z1 do u think the camera brings you the correct value for that kind of light situation?

thx

Tom Hardwick · January 29th, 2009, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Martell

Another question:When u push the auto gain-iris button on the z1 do u think the camera brings you the correct value for that kind of light situation?

Firstly, selling a Z1 and swapping it for a Z5 isn't going to make two hoots worth of difference to your films. The cameras are the same size, price, weight, and fit into exactly the same market segment. In fact it IS the same camera, with 4 years between them.

Next. the Z1 will give you what it considers the correct auto exposure only if the relevant figure is invisible. In other words, if there's no aperture indication in the v'finder, then that can float. If there's no gain shown then likewise, and the shutter speed can float if the 'auto shutter' in on in the menu.

The answer is to always have everything shown as a symbol - the WB, s/speed, gain and iris. That way you know you're in full manual control.

tom.

January 26th, 2009, 12:13 AM	#1
Martin Duffy Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 156	Sell that Z1! Just editing footage filmed 4 weeks ago via a FX1000 and Z1. I film dance concerts 2 cameras and have about 50 or so up my sleeve. It never ceases to amaze me how one can think he knows all the downfalls of a good production. There are rules that can't be broken and well in this case I have broken a golden rule and I am sure the client and the 80+ people who have purchased a DVD may say top me or to themselves "mmm that sort of doesn't look right". All I can say is don't film dual cameras with different brands or even differnet model cameras. In this case the FX1000 is making the Z1 look very average indeed and cutting between cameras makes me cringe! I am simply amazed at the difference between the Z1 and FX1000 in low light especially as the light becomes really low. I had held off going 16:9 and HD because of this and wow I would rather be looking at my old 4:3 TRV900 any day. The Z1 is nothing but a dud in this department! If you film dance concerts then ditch the Z1 now!

January 26th, 2009, 08:09 AM	#4
Michael Liebergot Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,505	So Martin are you saying that the FX1000 was that much better than the Z1? Or was your comment just based on HDV and low light shooting? __________________ Michael www.lvpvideo.com

January 26th, 2009, 04:26 PM	#9
Martin Duffy Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 156	Ratios [QUOTE=Ken Ross;1001220]Martin, I'm assuming you did this event in 16:9 HD? If you did it in 4:3 SD or 4:3 down-rez'd HD, how would you say the quality of the 1000 footage looked compared to your old TRV900? Ken I haven't compared footage to the 900 yet but will later today. The dance concert ws filmed in 16:9 SD. I don't understand why you mention 4:3 SD. Why would I film 4:3 and not 16:9? Am I missing something here? Martin.

January 26th, 2009, 01:56 AM	#2
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	I appreciate your post Martin. I was thinking about buying a Z1 to use as a third camera, for use in wedding ceremony only. While my third came purchase is not imminent yet, I'd probably be happiest with a Z5 anyway. Thanks for sharing.

January 26th, 2009, 07:25 AM	#3
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	Martin, I'm assuming you did this event in 16:9 HD? If you did it in 4:3 SD or 4:3 down-rez'd HD, how would you say the quality of the 1000 footage looked compared to your old TRV900? I actually still have one of those little beasts too that I use for occasional playback. Of course the firewire port is dead as is common in Sony mini-DV cams.

January 26th, 2009, 08:30 AM	#5
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	Mike, when I was at Sony Style last week, I shot a test scene with the FX1000. I had previously shot the same scene with the FX1 about 2 weeks prior before they had the 1000 on display. Comparing the two scenes, the FX1000 was significantly better. It had better sharpness, detail, color and a better ability to hold highlights before blowing out.

January 26th, 2009, 08:23 PM	#10
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	Martin, only because I don't know what type of TVs your clients have. If 4:3 TVs were the rule where you are, I could see you shooting in 4:3. It's the very reason I shoot corporate videos in 4:3 where these displays are still dominant. Of course if clients who had 4:3 TVs didn't mind letterboxing, then even there it would be a non-issue. But some people are still very funny about those 'black bars top & bottom'.

January 27th, 2009, 06:17 AM	#12
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	They're either owners of 16:9 TVs or they're more 'enlightened'.

January 28th, 2009, 09:30 AM	#14
Marcus Martell Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: spain Posts: 1,202	Hallo,so u guys owner of the new z5 think that for me that i ve purchased few weeks ago a z1 is worth to sell it and go 4 a new z5?I was worried about the rolling shutter issue..What u can tell me about this? Another question:When u push the auto gain-iris button on the z1 do u think the camera brings you the correct value for that kind of light situation? thx