Panasonic HMC150 vs Sony Z5 Side By Side Comparison Clip at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-Z5 / HDR-FX1000

Sony HVR-Z5 / HDR-FX1000
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CMOS HDV camcorder.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 16th, 2009, 01:54 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 910
Panasonic HMC150 vs Sony Z5 Side By Side Comparison Clip

I posted this on the Panasonic AVCCAM Camcorders forum, but I thought I would post it here as well since over half of the footage is from the Sony Z5.

I recently had the opportunity to spend a few hours with the Sony Z5. We did a low light comparison at various gain settings.

We also compared how the two cameras handle a camera flash. There has been a lot of talk about rolling shutter, but this was the first time I experienced it first hand. This internet clip will give you a glimpse at what it looks like, but it does not paint the true picture until you watch rolling shutter footage on a 40+ HD monitor.

The final test is a whip pan. Many videographers will not pan this quickly, but if a really quick pan is part of your shooting style, you need to know how the rolling shutter of CMOS will affect your footage.
Tips & Tricks
__________________
Mark Von Lanken
www.VonWeddingFilms.com
Mark Von Lanken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2009, 03:35 AM   #2
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW area, TX
Posts: 6,108
Images: 1
Hi Mark,

DV Info has a strict policy of no cross posting. Basically, we want the information on a single topic to all be in one place for later reference.

Thanks,

Greg Boston
Greg Boston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2009, 04:15 AM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 8,421
Well, that was a fine comparison Mark, thank you very much.

In past comparisons the low light performance of the Panasonic seemed closer to the Z5 but your demo shows more disparity than I expected.

The truth be told, in a shooting situation, using the gain properly with the Panny the difference could be made up, so the low light superiority of the Z5 could be offset and made inconsequential in most situations.

The rolling shutter however is not negotioable, of course and can look absolutely dreadful as I have experienced it and as you have demonstrated.

All in all, that little bit of low light superiority is comforting to me as a FX1000 owner however.

Greg, thanks for leaving the thread this time. This will no doubt garner much interest in this forum.
Jeff Harper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2009, 05:00 AM   #4
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Billericay, England UK
Posts: 4,711
Greg - I too might have missed this thread so I was glad to see it here. I've never seen such a clear and convincing demo of the CMOS rolling shutter effects.

I could live with the leaning verticals in a pan because presumably for most shots the eye would be following the subject as it remained somewhat central in the frame, but the sliced up electronic flash frames just look dire. The 50% (presumably this means slo-mo) are a real no-no for the paparazzi blast wedding couples get as they come down the aisle.

tom.
Tom Hardwick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2009, 05:59 AM   #5
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Nicosia, CYPRUS
Posts: 1,080
Yes I suppose you have to put a %value of importance of any feature/fault when you buy a camcorder then you make your decision. For me the rolling shutter was 5% only and other features (quality of built,brand name,low light, zoom,ability to record on tape and flash card,e.t.c..) have much higher values.

Stelios
__________________
My Blog: http://steliosc.blogspot.com
"I hope for nothing, I fear nothing, I am free" Nikos Kazantzakis
Stelios Christofides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2009, 08:02 AM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,940
What were the iris values in the test as this would be important for depth of field? The zoom position would also change this iris value for the Z5 if this was in close.

Ron Evans
Ron Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2009, 08:27 AM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 302
Thanks so much for that Mark. Im sure you have enlightened alot of people with this information. Exactly what I was looking for.

Well now Im just waiting for the HMC to arrive so I can see how they match up on my next wedding.
Steve Montoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2009, 10:10 AM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Boston View Post
Hi Mark,

DV Info has a strict policy of no cross posting. Basically, we want the information on a single topic to all be in one place for later reference.

Thanks,

Greg Boston
Hi Greg,

I'm sorry. I wasn't even thinking about the no cross posting policy. I initially posted it on the AVCCAM forum because a few people were wondering how the HMC150 compared to the Z5 in low light. After making the post I realized there were probably many who were considering the Z5, but had not seen the side affects of rolling shutter.

Please remove the post from the AVCCAM forum, especially since there seems to be more responses on the Z5/FX1000 forum.
__________________
Mark Von Lanken
www.VonWeddingFilms.com
Mark Von Lanken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2009, 10:21 AM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
What were the iris values in the test as this would be important for depth of field? The zoom position would also change this iris value for the Z5 if this was in close.

Ron Evans
Hi Ron,

The first test was with both cameras wide open on the iris and wide open on the zoom. On the close up test, the HMC150 was near max zoom and the iris closed down a bit. I then tried a similar framing with the Z5, and again the Z5 iris closed down.

I originally zoomed in all of the way on the Z5, which did get a tighter shot, but it was also much darker because the iris closes down so much at 20x zoom. I thought to be fair, I would frame both cameras as close as possible and then make sure the iris on both cameras was wide open. If I remember correctly, they were in the 2.8-3.4 range.

I'm not sure how DoF would affect this test. We did a manual focus on the subject and the wall was only about an inch further away than the subject.
__________________
Mark Von Lanken
www.VonWeddingFilms.com
Mark Von Lanken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2009, 11:40 AM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Billericay, England UK
Posts: 4,711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Von Lanken View Post
I originally zoomed in all of the way on the Z5, which did get a tighter shot, but it was also much darker because the iris closes down so much at 20x zoom. I'm not sure how DoF would affect this test. We did a manual focus on the subject and the wall was only about an inch further away than the subject.
The Z5 has a 20x zoom ramping from f/1.6 to f/3.4. The Panasonic has a 13x zoom going from f/1.6 to f/3.0, to there's a lot more zoom on the Z5 and it only loses another 1/3rd of a stop. I'm surprised to hear that you thought it went 'much darker' as a third stop is only just noticeable.

As both cameras have the same size chips the field of view is exactly the same for both at any given focal length, so dof is the same too.

tom.
Tom Hardwick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2009, 12:05 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 425
I think the whip pan should be put into a little better perspective. I was nervous when I heard that you can get a skew with the whip pans. It's been well documented that panning across a fence or bars, as Mark did in the video, would yield those results. I used the camera and did some whip pans at a party and I got nothing like that. Luckily for me I'll be shooting people at parties and not shooting fences or prison documentaries.
Rob Morse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2009, 12:13 PM   #12
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 8,421
You never know, Mark. I had an entertainment company and we did several gigs at a womens maximum security prison, so you never know who might call you; but that is a whole other story!

The whip pan is of absolutely of no issue to me either. I see issues with panning in much more expensive cameras than mine, and I think it is of no consequence for my purposes. Admittedly, I would prefer it to be perfect, but I just don't care about it that much.

It is still fantastic to see this comparison and to know more of what is what with these two cameras.
Jeff Harper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2009, 05:45 PM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 155
vertical pan a non issue in some instances

Well here is a positive re vertical pan.

I have looked back at recent Aussie Rules footage filmed with a FX1000 and there is alot of quick panning in the general footage.

I didn't see any vertical pan issues at all.

Perhaps vertical pan becomes an issue on subjects that are close to the camera.

The general footage I took was generally action zoomed into a subject that was 20-70 metres away.

My mind is at ease and I don't see it as an issue for me.

That footage Mark filmed though of the fence was rather scary and if one was filming commercials it could well be a big issue in some instances.

Thanks MArk for doing this for us.

On what I think is a huge + for the Z5/FX1000 is the digi 30X zoom. I have now used it 3 times and are blown away by the little if no loss in quality.

For those doing sport it is just awesome being able to press a button and "BANG" you are in there so much closer.

I just can't see any digital distortion although I haven't tried it yet on a big LCD/Plasma TV or in HDV as I am shooting in standard DEF.

But based on what I see so far it really is a big plus and well done Sony on this one.

Seems I am Sony happy again after some initital disappointments with the camera. I am loving the 1/3 inch images this 30X extender is a huge bonus for me.
Martin Duffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2009, 05:59 AM   #14
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Plainview, N.Y.
Posts: 1,944
The whip pan is of zero consequence to me, but the low light surely isn't. The Z5 seems significantly better and I can well imagine settings where no matter what you do with the Panny, you'll get a noisier image in an attempt to get a usable image.

Not mentioned, but I also notice some areas where the Z5 appeared sharper too. Of course this was on a relatively small window on the frame, so I'd bet there was a bigger disparity than what I saw on the site when viewed on a large screen monitor.

I also agree with Martin on the big advantage of the 20X zoom...and the very nice wide angle to boot.
Ken Ross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2009, 10:53 AM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
...The Z5 seems significantly better and I can well imagine settings where no matter what you do with the Panny, you'll get a noisier image in an attempt to get a usable image...
Hi Ken,

On an HD monitor the Z5 seemed only slightly brighter, but here is the really big difference. The dark areas of the shot were significantly noisier on the Z5 at 12dB gain, while the HMC150 was cleaner in the dark areas of the shot at 12 dB gain.
__________________
Mark Von Lanken
www.VonWeddingFilms.com
Mark Von Lanken is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-Z5 / HDR-FX1000

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:02 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network