Any difference in quality between capturing with --Firewire or HDMI? at DVinfo.net

Marco Giordani · March 24th, 2010, 06:58 AM

I was wondering if their is a difference if I capture with an HDMI cable as apposed to my regular Firewire? Would it be better quality with an HDMI cable?

Thanks

Jo Ouwejan · March 24th, 2010, 09:17 AM

It will be better, but you will need a Blackmagic Intensity Pro card to save it to.
Blackmagic Design: Intensity

Dirk Pel · March 24th, 2010, 09:20 AM

Perhaps,
But I think you lost the timecode!
Dirk PEL(NL)

Marco Giordani · March 24th, 2010, 09:30 AM

Yes that is exactly what I was thinking to get the blackmagic card. So I don't have to work in HDV anymore. I think I will change it to DVCPRO HD and edit in that codec.

I hope I don't lose the timecode. Are you sure?

Tim Kolb · March 24th, 2010, 10:30 AM

You could also use an AJA IO Express to capture via HDMI.

...I'm not sure about the timecode issue as I typically work with SDI.

Adam Gold · March 24th, 2010, 11:19 AM

The only way to get the timecode is to use firewire. But why would you want to capture via HDMI anyway? There's no advantage -- it's a bit for bit transfer either way. Once your picture has been written to tape it's been compressed and there's no advantage to HDMI capture. The only time this benefits you is if you capture live while you are shooting.

HDMI is designed for display, not capture.

Marco Giordani · March 24th, 2010, 11:59 AM

Adam, mainly because I want to get out of working in HDV, and did some research that I could get a blackmagic card to transcode on import. I am going to try working in DVCPRO HD.

Jo Ouwejan · March 24th, 2010, 02:30 PM

There is one on Ebay:

Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro | TRUE HD CAPTURE!! - eBay (item 190381318074 end time Mar-26-10 17:51:43 PDT)
And yes, it only is benificial if you capture life.

Adam Gold · March 24th, 2010, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Giordani

I want to get out of working in HDV. I am going to try working in DVCPRO HD.

Why? What do you think transcoding to DVCPRO HD will give you that you don't have in HDV? Once you've recorded to HDV, you can't get back what you've lost.

You might look at Cineform's tools for a better post workflow.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/cineform...-cineform.html

Marco Giordani · March 24th, 2010, 05:20 PM

Adam I am not expecting better quality because like you said once you record in HDV you cant get better.

What I am looking for is my editing to work smoother. I think I have a pretty good 8 core mac pro but when I put third party filters, (joe's filters, nattress, etc) transitions, color changes, etc it slows things down. I want to use a codec that from what I understand works really good with Final Cut (DVCPRO HD)

I have never heard of Cineform before. I will have to look into it.

Wacharapong Chiowanich · March 24th, 2010, 07:49 PM

You can simply select Apple Intermediate Codec a.k.a. AIC (or maybe one of the ProRes 422s, check with the transcode options first) to transcode your footage upon capture using firewire. It's in the Log and Capture window. I used to work with AIC a lot and can assure you all editing is faster and snappier on all Macs as compared to DVC ProHD. As you don't have the 4:2:2 10 bit color sampling to maintain and don't expect better quality than your HDV source footage, I think this is the way to go. Using HDMI+capture card for the sole purpose of getting an editing-friendly format on capture may not be worth the hassle, I believe.

Jeff Harper · March 25th, 2010, 07:12 AM

Try Gearshift by Vasst...it is a very nice solution when working with HDV.

Jeff Wallace · March 28th, 2010, 01:53 PM

I have a Blackmagic card and have captured via HDMI, but the problem with capturing as true HD (for example bringing it in as ApplePro Res 422) is the file sizes are HUGE... 3 times as large as capturing via Firewire as HDV.

So if you need to bring in tons of footage like 8 hours of wedding footage, then forget it unless you have about 3TB of extra space.

I also didn't notice any difference quality.

Marco Giordani · March 28th, 2010, 02:11 PM

Thanks Jeff............Unfortunately I just found this out yesterday.

I got the card/installed it and imported more than 8 hours of footage and was very surprised how quickly I was at 500GB importing with DVCPRO HD.

The main reason I went the blackmagic route was not for quality but for work flow. I wanted to get out of the HDV format to speed up my render times/editing.
But the problem is I use the Multicam editor in Final Cut (my shoots are with 4 cameras) and I can't edit because the harddrive cannot process the 4 streams of video fast enough.

So I think I am going back to HDV.

March 24th, 2010, 06:58 AM	#1
Marco Giordani Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 37	Any difference in quality between capturing with --Firewire or HDMI? I was wondering if their is a difference if I capture with an HDMI cable as apposed to my regular Firewire? Would it be better quality with an HDMI cable? Thanks

March 24th, 2010, 10:30 AM	#5
Tim Kolb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 547	You could also use an AJA IO Express to capture via HDMI. ...I'm not sure about the timecode issue as I typically work with SDI. __________________ TimK Kolb Productions

March 24th, 2010, 11:19 AM	#6
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	The only way to get the timecode is to use firewire. But why would you want to capture via HDMI anyway? There's no advantage -- it's a bit for bit transfer either way. Once your picture has been written to tape it's been compressed and there's no advantage to HDMI capture. The only time this benefits you is if you capture live while you are shooting. HDMI is designed for display, not capture. __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

March 24th, 2010, 09:17 AM	#2
Jo Ouwejan Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Veenendaal, Holland Posts: 225	It will be better, but you will need a Blackmagic Intensity Pro card to save it to. Blackmagic Design: Intensity

March 24th, 2010, 09:20 AM	#3
Dirk Pel Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Karlsruhe Germany Posts: 42	Perhaps, But I think you lost the timecode! Dirk PEL(NL)

March 24th, 2010, 09:30 AM	#4
Marco Giordani Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 37	Yes that is exactly what I was thinking to get the blackmagic card. So I don't have to work in HDV anymore. I think I will change it to DVCPRO HD and edit in that codec. I hope I don't lose the timecode. Are you sure?

March 24th, 2010, 11:59 AM	#7
Marco Giordani Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 37	Adam, mainly because I want to get out of working in HDV, and did some research that I could get a blackmagic card to transcode on import. I am going to try working in DVCPRO HD.

March 24th, 2010, 02:30 PM	#8
Jo Ouwejan Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Veenendaal, Holland Posts: 225	There is one on Ebay: Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro \| TRUE HD CAPTURE!! - eBay (item 190381318074 end time Mar-26-10 17:51:43 PDT) And yes, it only is benificial if you capture life.

March 24th, 2010, 05:20 PM	#10
Marco Giordani Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 37	Adam I am not expecting better quality because like you said once you record in HDV you cant get better. What I am looking for is my editing to work smoother. I think I have a pretty good 8 core mac pro but when I put third party filters, (joe's filters, nattress, etc) transitions, color changes, etc it slows things down. I want to use a codec that from what I understand works really good with Final Cut (DVCPRO HD) I have never heard of Cineform before. I will have to look into it.

March 24th, 2010, 07:49 PM	#11
Wacharapong Chiowanich Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 400	You can simply select Apple Intermediate Codec a.k.a. AIC (or maybe one of the ProRes 422s, check with the transcode options first) to transcode your footage upon capture using firewire. It's in the Log and Capture window. I used to work with AIC a lot and can assure you all editing is faster and snappier on all Macs as compared to DVC ProHD. As you don't have the 4:2:2 10 bit color sampling to maintain and don't expect better quality than your HDV source footage, I think this is the way to go. Using HDMI+capture card for the sole purpose of getting an editing-friendly format on capture may not be worth the hassle, I believe.

March 25th, 2010, 07:12 AM	#12
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Try Gearshift by Vasst...it is a very nice solution when working with HDV.

March 28th, 2010, 01:53 PM	#13
Jeff Wallace Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 79	I have a Blackmagic card and have captured via HDMI, but the problem with capturing as true HD (for example bringing it in as ApplePro Res 422) is the file sizes are HUGE... 3 times as large as capturing via Firewire as HDV. So if you need to bring in tons of footage like 8 hours of wedding footage, then forget it unless you have about 3TB of extra space. I also didn't notice any difference quality.

March 28th, 2010, 02:11 PM	#14
Marco Giordani Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 37	Thanks Jeff............Unfortunately I just found this out yesterday. I got the card/installed it and imported more than 8 hours of footage and was very surprised how quickly I was at 500GB importing with DVCPRO HD. The main reason I went the blackmagic route was not for quality but for work flow. I wanted to get out of the HDV format to speed up my render times/editing. But the problem is I use the Multicam editor in Final Cut (my shoots are with 4 cameras) and I can't edit because the harddrive cannot process the 4 streams of video fast enough. So I think I am going back to HDV.