30p not really 30p?? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-Z5 / HDR-FX1000

Sony HVR-Z5 / HDR-FX1000
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CMOS HDV camcorder.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 28th, 2010, 02:41 PM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Mateo, CA
Posts: 77
30p not really 30p??

I've been shooting in 1080/30p on my FX1000 and noticed when I import the footage into a 30p timeline in Final Cut Pro, the software is saying the footage is really 60i and not 30p.

Is this because these cameras (FX1000 and Z5u) don't really shoot native 30/24p? So is this "fake" 30p? I don't get it.

I'm also generally unhappy with the look of 30p on this camera compared to other cams that shoot native 30p like the Canon 7D.

I'd like to mix 30p footage from the FX1000 with other cameras at the same frame rate, but if the footage is really 60i and not really 30p then I think I made the wrong choice in cameras.
Jeff Wallace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2010, 12:26 PM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Woodinville, WA USA
Posts: 3,464
The FX1000 writes 24p and 30p as 60i on tape. The Z5 does native progressive, but it will also write to 60i if you tell it to (if your NLE can't do progressive).
__________________
"It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."
Adam Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 30th, 2010, 02:41 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Newbern, TN
Posts: 414
It's 60i until you change the project properties from 'interlace' to 'progressive'.....then it's true 30p. Make sure to render progressive also.
__________________
Tim
Tim Akin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 18th, 2010, 08:44 AM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 95
Why select 24p/30p in the camera at all?

First I'd like to say I'm thrilled to find a forum of FX1000 users because I'm really trying to use my camera to it's full potential and I have many questions.

I'm trying to understand why I only get 29.97fps video data when I select 24p or 30p in my camera?

If the camera only writes 60i to the Mini DV tape and it's up to the editing software to change it to 24p or 30p then why have the selection at all in the camera?

Thanx for the help,
KPO
Kevin O'Connor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 18th, 2010, 11:15 AM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,942
There is a difference between what the camera shoots and how it is recorded to tape or transmitted from the outputs. The camera can shoot 60i ( camera is operating at 60 fps but just recording fields every 1/60th second, half the vertical resolution), camera shoots 30 progressive frames a second and record a field every 1/60 into a 60i data stream( takes 2 fields to record the 30P frame first odd field then the even field from the same frame, this can then be reassembled into the 30p frame), shoot at 24fps and perform 3:2 pulldown to record to the 60i transport recorded to tape( 24p frames are split into fields and recorded across the 60 fields in the 60i data stream recorded to tape, again this will be reassembled into 24p by the NLE) All these meet the 29.97 frames a second spec since they are carried in the 60i drop frame time code. They of course look very different. 60i will look the smoothest since its source is 60fps, 30p will have half the temporal motion and the one with the most judder will be 24p having the slowest temporal motion.

Ron Evans
Ron Evans is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 18th, 2010, 06:01 PM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 95
So I need to still select 24p or 30p on the camera if I want to edit it later. Makes sense I mean, why have the settings if there not needed.

But why does the play back on the camera's monitor show a 29 frame rate in the time code if I select 24P or 30p for scanning? I understand why my NLE is only showing 29.97fps now but why does the camera monitor?
Kevin O'Connor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 18th, 2010, 09:16 PM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,942
That is because there is only one record rate. As I said you have to separate what the camera takes from how it is recorded. It all has to fit in the 60i stream which is 29.97frames per second. It's like say I have a bucket to transport stuff. It doesn't matter whether its water, milk, oil, it is just one bucket at a time. when I poor it out at the other end It returns to being what I put in at the beginning. Transport rate is one bucket at a time, contents --what ever I put in at the beginning. For NTSC its 60 fields a second, how these are used is not important but will always show 29.97DF.

Ron Evans
Ron Evans is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 19th, 2010, 12:16 PM   #8
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 95
Got it, I see what you mean now.
Thanx for the info.
Kevin O'Connor is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-Z5 / HDR-FX1000

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:30 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network