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Sony HVR-Z7 / HVR-S270
Handheld and shoulder mount versions of this Sony 3-CMOS HDV camcorder.


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Old November 22nd, 2007, 11:04 PM   #1
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Is it worth to wait for S270,

Dear All,

I just sold my FX1 and originally plan to buy shoulder-mounted Canon H1 until I saw S270 which will be out next year. I have been an enthusiastic Canon DSLR user and pretty happy with its L-lens performance. This is also why I want to switch from FX1 to H1 which equips with a 20x HD L-lens. Really appreciate if anyone can give me some advises or suggestions here.

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Old November 22nd, 2007, 11:07 PM   #2
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My advice has always been: if you're waiting, you're not creating. Therefore "now" is always the right time to buy. When something newer and better comes along, sell what you've got and step up.
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Old December 2nd, 2007, 01:30 PM   #3
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I just purchased a new xl h1... very happy! I thought about waiting, but I noticed that the forthcoming Sony 270 will only have 960x1080 3CMOS imager... I previously owned the Z1 which only had 3 960x1080 CCDs... I can tell you there is a difference between 960x1080 and 1440x1080 found on all of Canon's 3 CCD HD cameras... much sharper in my opinion. Also, for now, I prefer having a true interlaced 3 CCD imager, as I mostly shoot 1080i.
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Old December 5th, 2007, 07:19 PM   #4
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Thomas,

Can you tell me where you got the info about the 960x1080 3CMOS imager size.

Thanks,

Forrest
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Old December 5th, 2007, 08:59 PM   #5
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I have used the Canon XL-H1 for awhile now, very nice camera, especially with the wide angle lens, but the one thing I don't like about it is the inability to focus and zoom simultaneously, with either the supplied lens or the wide angle lens. The only time you can change focus while zooming is in one instance: zooming in while in auto focus. Try focusing while zooming out in auto focus, or focusing while zooming in or out in manual focus. You cannot focus during these latter instances, during the actual zoom. Focus will only occur after the zoom stops. I have been told the other Canon HDV cams have the same problem. Sony HDV cams do not have this problem.
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Old December 6th, 2007, 01:28 AM   #6
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Can this lens support zooming and focusing simultaneously? even though it's designed for SD



http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/HD...essories.shtml

16x Manual Servo Zoom Lens XL 5.4-86.4mm f/1.6*

Fully manual focus with markings.
Power or manual zoom with markings.
Auto or manual iris.
(2) ND filters (ND2.7 and ND5)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Gradin View Post
I have used the Canon XL-H1 for awhile now, very nice camera, especially with the wide angle lens, but the one thing I don't like about it is the inability to focus and zoom simultaneously, with either the supplied lens or the wide angle lens. The only time you can change focus while zooming is in one instance: zooming in while in auto focus. Try focusing while zooming out in auto focus, or focusing while zooming in or out in manual focus. You cannot focus during these latter instances, during the actual zoom. Focus will only occur after the zoom stops. I have been told the other Canon HDV cams have the same problem. Sony HDV cams do not have this problem.
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Old December 6th, 2007, 01:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Wang View Post
Can this lens support zooming and focusing simultaneously?
(re: Canon XL 16x Manual Servo Zoom Lens)
Yes it can.

Although I have no idea why someone would want to change focus in the middle of a zoom.
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Old December 6th, 2007, 12:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
Yes it can.

Although I have no idea why someone would want to change focus in the middle of a zoom.
It all depends on what type of work you do. I shoot alot of sports highlights and live concerts. I have to constantly change focus while zooming since the players or musicians are rarely stationary.

For the type of work I do, this would be a deal breaker for me on the Canon cameras.
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Old December 6th, 2007, 02:54 PM   #9
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I have access to 3 Canon XL-H1's. None of them focus while zooming, except in one instance: Auto Focus during zoom in. (I guess Canon had to make sure that worked, or everyone would be complaining). I was told by Canon Rep that they gave up this function to support the Seady shot feature on their HD lenses. I have to admit, they have the best Steady shot system out there for these types of cameras. Either wait for the zoom to stop, then focus, or buy another manufacturer's camera.
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Old December 7th, 2007, 11:48 AM   #10
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Sony vs. Canon Lenses

To clarify: The zoom/focus issue I brought up here the other day has to do with the two HD Lenses that are designed for the XL-H1, the stock lens and the newer wide angle lens. They talk to the camera via electrical connectors to enable steadyshot, iris, focus, preprogrammed moves, etc. There is nothing wrong with the Canon camera itself. You could certainly use a different lens that won't have the zoom/focus problem but it would be totally manual, like the JVC shoulder cams.

I did test both the new Z7 and the S270 lenses at the Government Video Expo on November 16. These new Sony cams with removable lenses do not have the zoom/focus problem that the Canon XL-H1 has. (Both Sony's, with stock lens, can do simultaneous zoom/focus). The Sony lenses also do steadyshot, iris, focus, etc. Whether the Sony's steadyshot is as good as the Canon's is something I just didn't have time to check out.

I hope this clarifies any misunderstanding and I apologize for inferring that there is something wrong with the Canon XL-H1 camera itself. It is a great camera and the Canon lens has great optics. Their newer wide angle lens is very, very nice indeed. I am just trying to help others with their decision as to which camera to chose for their own particular needs.
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Old December 10th, 2007, 11:11 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest Burger View Post
Thomas,

Can you tell me where you got the info about the 960x1080 3CMOS imager size.

Thanks,

Forrest

I found the specifications from the product brochure @:

http://www.sonybiz.net/res/attachmen...3315642481.pdf

It states 1,120,000 pixels total (just like the previous Sony fx1 and z1u). 1,120,000 pixels = 960x1080.

The Canon XL-H1 has 1,670,000 pixels (1440x1080)

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Old December 10th, 2007, 12:38 PM   #12
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In terms of photo diodes it is 960x1080 but they are on a diagonal format as one can see in the same brochure. The actual pixels used after the DSP do not completely use ANY of the complete photos diodes. See the red outlines in the diagram on page 5. ALL the pixels used for video information are interpolated from the array of photo diodes. The interpolated array is 1920 x1080. For any one of the 1920 vertical lines there are 540 REAL photo diodes and in any one of 1080 horizontal lines there are 960 REAL photo diodes.At least that's how I understand it.

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Old December 11th, 2007, 06:44 AM   #13
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I am just wondering how well the Z7 is going to outperform Z1 or even H1 if it still equips a sensor whose real pixel resolution is 960x1080. We used to see the big difference between Z1 and H1.

http://www.eidomedia.com/test/out_test.htm
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Old December 11th, 2007, 08:24 AM   #14
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You guys are not understanding how the ClearVid process works. The "real" resolution isn't how many pixels are on the chip; instead it's what the processor is delivering to tape. You can't disregard the benefits of spatial offset or the interpolation of the processor, as the boost they provide to the recorded resolution is definitely legitimate.
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Old December 11th, 2007, 06:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
You guys are not understanding how the ClearVid process works. The "real" resolution isn't how many pixels are on the chip; instead it's what the processor is delivering to tape. You can't disregard the benefits of spatial offset or the interpolation of the processor, as the boost they provide to the recorded resolution is definitely legitimate.
I do understand... I was just stating the fact that it only has 1,120,000 actual pixels according to Sony. I previously owned a Sony FX1 and Z1U, and Sony stated at the time that processing and pixel shift would produce the quality of true 1440x1080... it didn't in my opinion. Maybe the new processing and spatial offset will be better... only time will tell, when we see the quality first hand...
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