Telephoto options for the Z7 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-Z7 / HVR-S270

Sony HVR-Z7 / HVR-S270
Handheld and shoulder mount versions of this Sony 3-CMOS HDV camcorder.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 29th, 2008, 01:38 PM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Bozeman MT
Posts: 51
Telephoto options for the Z7

Looking for some info on options for a good zoom lens for the Z7?
brands & pricing..low end and high end.
Thanks so much
Todd Moen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2008, 02:37 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 621
Well, I'd recommend either waiting for the Sony digital Alpha DSLR lens adaptor, or getting one of the Nikon adaptors that have been marketed for the JVD HD100 series (same mount as the Z7).

Then, you can buy a pretty cheap (<$300) DSLR 15-70mm lens. With the 7.5x crop factor, that would give you the equivalent field of view of a 110-500mm lens. And, since, you'd only be using the center of the lens, it should be pretty good optical quality, too.

You'd probably lose steady shot and autofocus (although maybe not with the Sony lenses -- depends on how sophisticated Sony's promised adaptor is), but so what?
__________________
http://www.prolefeedstudios.com/blog/
Documentary for the masses!
Brian Standing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2008, 04:50 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney-Australia
Posts: 443
Hi Todd, I am using the Nikon 80-200f-2.8 ED and I am very happy with it - razor sharp with excellent colours and contrast. You can only use it manual. Get the Nikon adapter form Mike Tapa - www.mtfservices.com - works great. I also use bar support system and follow focus made by RedRock and it all works wonderfully.
It is important to note that you can only use lenses with the iris ring or else you can control the iris.
Ofer Levy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2008, 06:29 PM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Bozeman MT
Posts: 51
Thanks guys,
Man, I thought I would have to be spending upto 6 grand for a new telephoto lens....
Brian, any idea what the sony adapter will be going for? And why this is better? And will we have a choice between a Canon or Nikon? Can you talk a littl ebit more about why I'm only going to be able to use the middle part of the lens. And maybe the issues of trying to zoom with this type of set-up.

Ofer, what is the longest lens you have used, and how did it work? Thanks for the links..
Todd Moen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2008, 07:17 PM   #5
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cornsay Durham UK
Posts: 1,940
Quick question to those in the know, I have a nikkor 50mm f1.4 and a 105mm f2.5 manual lenses in superb condition.

Am I right in saying that these will fit my Z7 with the adaptor quoted from mike tappa and give me two prime lenses at 350mm and 735mm?
__________________
Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/
Gary Nattrass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2008, 07:34 PM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Platte River, NE
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Nattrass View Post
Quick question to those in the know, I have a nikkor 50mm f1.4 and a 105mm f2.5 manual lenses in superb condition.

Am I right in saying that these will fit my Z7 with the adaptor quoted from mike tappa and give me two prime lenses at 350mm and 735mm?
That is correct...

I have one of these adapters for my Z7, Nikon 18-200mm lens, and Tamron 10.5-17mm Fisheye. Very good results so far.
Jake Latendresse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2008, 09:05 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Moen View Post
Brian, any idea what the sony adapter will be going for? And why this is better? And will we have a choice between a Canon or Nikon? Can you talk a littl ebit more about why I'm only going to be able to use the middle part of the lens. And maybe the issues of trying to zoom with this type of set-up. .
I have no idea how much the Sony adapter will cost (since it's Sony, I wouldn't be surprised if it's overpriced), and I really don't know much about the details. If it's a simple mechanical mount like the MTF adapter, it won't necessarily be any better. On the other hand, it's possible Sony might come out with something that would allow the Z7 to access the autofocus and auto-iris features of Sony's DSLR lenses. If you don't care about such things, just get the Nikon adapter and be happy.

Just to be clear, when I was talking about the "center of the lens," I wasn't referring to the zoom distance. I think you should be able to access the full zoom range. Because you'll be using a lens designed for a 35mm film frame (or APS-C sized sensor if it's a DSLR lens) on a 1/3" sensor, you'll effectively be "cropping out" a smaller diameter circle from the center of the lens's image. Most lenses are sharpest at the center, and any aberrations or distortions tend to appear at the edge of the frame. This also why you get a smaller field of view, equivalent to a lens 7.5 times the focal length.

I'm no expert, though, and have only recently (I hope) understood this phenomenon myself. There may be others who can explain this more clearly.
__________________
http://www.prolefeedstudios.com/blog/
Documentary for the masses!
Brian Standing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2008, 04:19 AM   #8
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cornsay Durham UK
Posts: 1,940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Latendresse View Post
That is correct...

I have one of these adapters for my Z7, Nikon 18-200mm lens, and Tamron 10.5-17mm Fisheye. Very good results so far.
OOOO me have to get one of those adaptors for wildlife and mega close ups

Bingo ordered one today for delivery tommorow the 1st May
__________________
Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/

Last edited by Gary Nattrass; April 30th, 2008 at 12:52 PM.
Gary Nattrass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2008, 06:13 AM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney-Australia
Posts: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Moen View Post
Thanks guys,
Man, I thought I would have to be spending upto 6 grand for a new telephoto lens....
Brian, any idea what the sony adapter will be going for? And why this is better? And will we have a choice between a Canon or Nikon? Can you talk a littl ebit more about why I'm only going to be able to use the middle part of the lens. And maybe the issues of trying to zoom with this type of set-up.

Ofer, what is the longest lens you have used, and how did it work? Thanks for the links..
Hi Todd, the longest lens I am using is the Nikon 400 f3.5 ED manual focus and it gives SUPERB results. I have only tested it indoors but going to try it in the field very soon. You are working with an effective 2800mm f3.5 lens which is an AWESOME tool for wildlife. I am using it with a Wimberley tripod head as I don't have any intentions to do any camera movements with it as vibrations is an issue. Have a look at my site under NEW PHOTO.
http://www.oferlevyphotography.com

Last edited by Ofer Levy; April 30th, 2008 at 07:11 AM.
Ofer Levy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2008, 12:33 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 621
Hey, Ofer

Are you using a Nikon 35mm lens or a DSLR lens?
__________________
http://www.prolefeedstudios.com/blog/
Documentary for the masses!
Brian Standing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2008, 01:21 PM   #11
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Bozeman MT
Posts: 51
Brian, I'm trying to wrap my head around all this...
First, I don't shoot stills so hang tight with me here. What is the difference between a Nikon 35mm lens or a DSLR lens?

Second, if Ofer is shooting a Nikon 400 f3.5 ED how does that factor in that he is working with an effective 2800mm f3.5 lens? Am I missing something here?

If you put a 400mm lens on the Z7, isn't that what you are shooting out of the z7 - 400mm?

Brian, do you use all Nikon lenses on your Z7?

By the way... thanks you guys for all the input...
Todd Moen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2008, 02:21 PM   #12
Tourist
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Fife, Scotland
Posts: 4
A 400mm lens on a 35mm SLR camera will produce an 8x magnification (a 50mm lens on such a camera produces roughly the same FOV as the human eye ->>>>400/50 =8x).

The sensor size on a Z7 is much smaller than the equivalent exposed area on 35mm film and so a lens designed for a 35mm film camera will produce a much greater magnification on such a wee sensor. The difference is approx 7x (aye seven!!) -so a 400mm lens designed for a 35mm SLR camera will, on the Z7 behave like a (400x7) 2800mm lens producing a whopping 56x magnification > brilliant for wildlife videography but not so hot for panoramics!!! If extreme magnification is needed then this is an excellent & fairly cheap way to achieve it -though there are certain practical difficulties: finding your target with such a narrow FOV is one big headache whilst the other is keeping such a rig still -the least vibration will be magnified beyond belief.

Re standard Nikon 35mm SLR & DSLR lens differences -there isn't much difference. Digital sensors are more sensitive to ghost & flare than is film so the newer DSLR lenses are re-vamped 35mm lenses with extra lens coatings to minimize this effect & optimise their perfomance on DSLR >presumably such lenses are also the better choice for HDV cams.
Steve Garvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2008, 02:35 PM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 621
Todd,

Steve's explanation is pretty good. Also, check out this thread for further discussion:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=109489

Imagine a 35mm, rectangular film frame. That's the size of an image that a 35mm lens is designed to resolve.

Now take a rectangle that's only 1/3" (8.4mm) in diagonal. Place that smaller rectangle inside, right at the center of, the 35mm rectangle. That's what the 1/3" CMOS sensor on the Z7 will see if you attach a 35mm lens to the camera. That portion of the image (or "field of view") will be equivalent to what you would see if the focal length were 7 times larger. So, a 50mm focal length lens designed for a 35mm film frame will look like a 350mm lens if you look at it with a 1/3" sensor.

It's not really a magnification, though, because you haven't changed the optical qualities of the lens. It's really a "crop factor."

I don't own a Z7, yet. I'm hoping to buy one in the next month or so.

What's still not clear to me, though, is if there is a difference in the size of the image resolved by 35mm lenses vs. DSLR lenses. I think there should be, because the standard APS-C DSLR sensor is 23.4mm X 15mm, NOT 35mm. This would suggest that the crop factor for 35mm lenses should be somewhat different than the crop factor for DSLR lenses. So far, I haven't found anyone able to confirm my suspicion.

I guess I'll just have to try it out when I get my camera and see for myself!

EDIT: All, right. I went and reread Mel Enriquez's explanation in the thread I referenced above. I think I get it now. The crop factor is the same for either 35mm or DSLR lenses, because you're measuring off the focal length, which doesn't change. So if I were going to replicate the same "normal" field of view for three different cameras I'd use:
- a 50mm lens on a 35mm camera;
- a 33mm lens on an APS-C DSLR camera, and;
- a 7mm lens on a 1/3" CMOS camera like the Z7.

Conversely, if I want a super-telephoto look, I'll need:
- a 500mm lens on a 35mm camera;
- a 333mm lens on an APS-C DSLR camera;
- but can get by with only a 71mm lens on a 1/3" CMOS camera.

Right?
__________________
http://www.prolefeedstudios.com/blog/
Documentary for the masses!

Last edited by Brian Standing; April 30th, 2008 at 03:30 PM. Reason: I'm dense and need to see my own words in writing before it makes sense to me.
Brian Standing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2008, 03:22 PM   #14
Tourist
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Fife, Scotland
Posts: 4
The sensor sizes of different DSLR cameras can vary ...........to pick Canon SLRs -the 1Ds series have full 35mm sensors thus no cropping, the 1D series have a slightly smaller sensor yielding a cropping factor of 1.3x, whilst the 40D has an APS-C sized sensor giving a cropping factor of 1.6x.

A 50mm standard lens & a 50mm DSLR will yield the same angle of view -but the size of the sensor receiving the light will then crop this AOV (or not). As APS-C sensor-sized cameras are so popular lens manufacturers have designed lenses that are optimised to APS-C sensors. To use Sigma as an example -Sigma's 4.5mm f2.8 EX DC HSM Lens (fisheye) has an angle of view of 180 degrees on an APS-C sensor, whilst the Sigma 8mm f3.5 EX DG Fisheye Lens has a 180 degree AOV on a full-sized sensor camera. The former lens is designed for APS-C digital SLRs only & the latter for full-sized sensor cameras (though can also be used on APS-C cameras) but note though they yield the same AOV on their 'target' cameras the former is a 4.5mm lens & the latter 8mm.

Confusing or what?????
__________________
RAINBIRDER
( http://www.pbase.com/rainbirder )
Steve Garvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2008, 05:17 PM   #15
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Bozeman MT
Posts: 51
Holy Smokes... this is amazing...
I have a hard time imagining that the quality when attaching a 300m nikon lens will be crisp.

So Brian,
When you pick up you new Z7,
What is the ultimate setup for wildlife outdoor shooting?
I guess I'm wondering what type of Nikon lens would be the best match for the Z7? Will you wait for the Sony adapter?

This has been a great thread so far...
Todd Moen is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-Z7 / HVR-S270

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:07 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network