Do tape and CF share the same timecode?

[Brian Standing]

I don't have a Z7 yet, but I'm on the verge. I'm hoping to be able to capture from the CF cards and put the tapes on a shelf. If I ever need to recreate the project in the future (after I've reused the CF cards), I'd like to be able to recapture from tape. In order to do this, the timecode between CF and tape will have to match exactly.

I've heard a couple of Z7 users talk about "sync" issues between CF and tape. I'm assuming this simply means that recording to flash doesn't start or stop precisely at the same time the tape starts rolling, so there may be a few seconds at the start or end of a clip that show up on one media, but not on the other. I would think, though, that the embedded timecode in the recorded video should still match.

Does it?

Thanks in advance for any clarification.

[Arnaud Keil]

Sorry, that does'nt match!
You have to use tape OR compact flash with your editing software if you want to share EDL.

[Zach Love]

Arnaud I think you're incorrect.

From the little I've shot w/ my Z7, the tape & the CF card have the same TC. (I think this is a setting you have to make sure is checked).

I have been meaning to test out media manage / offline editing / etc. etc. and one of the things I want to test is seeing how easy FCP can recapture media after varying sources.

If I get some time I'll post my results.

[Brian Standing]

Originally Posted by Zach Love

I have been meaning to test out media manage / offline editing / etc. etc. and one of the things I want to test is seeing how easy FCP can recapture media after varying sources.

If I get some time I'll post my results.

I have no experience with HDV, but I know with DV, the timecode is encoded as part of the video stream itself. I assume that's the case with m2t files as well.

Zach, I look forward to hearing about your experiences with recapture. Thanks for sharing.

[Tim Dashwood]

The answer is Yes.

[Brian Standing]

Excellent news! Thanks, Tim.

[John Miller]

Originally Posted by Brian Standing

I have no experience with HDV, but I know with DV, the timecode is encoded as part of the video stream itself.

Here's something I stumbled across a while back with a Sony PDX-10:

If you are recording to tape and simultaneously capturing to a computer then the timecode on the tape is not the same as in the captured file. There is about a 2 or 3 frame difference.

This is important if you capture live material and, for some reason, need to recapture a part of it from tape - the timecodes won't match.

I haven't tested this with any other camcorders, though.

[John Knight]

So... if this is the case.... what I would love to do is the following.

Record HDV to tape, and SD to CF card.

Edit SD in Premiere Pro CS3 and deliver to client on DVD.

In the future... delete the SD content from HDD, capture HDV from tapes, swap/replace the SD with HDV with timeline/sound/filters/fades etc all perfectly in place. Deliver on Blu-Ray.

In the real world... is this possible? (would test myself but CF card not arrived yet)

[Arnaud Keil]

Originally Posted by Zach Love

Arnaud I think you're incorrect.

From the little I've shot w/ my Z7, the tape & the CF card have the same TC. (I think this is a setting you have to make sure is checked).

You're right Zack, I was wrong.

I did a quick test to verify, shooting my watch with tape and CF and... my CF recorder doesn't record any synchronous TC!!!
On the footage, the TC is starting from zero at each start of shot... whether it's the same TC shown on the LCD of the CF recorder during recording.
Maybe that something has a false setting, maybe that it's a new issue of my camera...
Sometimes I feel tired...

[Tim Dashwood]

Originally Posted by Arnaud Keil

I did a quick test to verify, shooting my watch with tape and CF and... my CF recorder doesn't record any synchronous TC!!!
On the footage, the TC is starting from zero at each start of shot... whether it's the same TC shown on the LCD of the CF recorder during recording.
Maybe that something has a false setting, maybe that it's a new issue of my camera...

It sounds to me like the software you are using is simply not reading the timecode. Mpegstreamclip will not read the TC in any m2t, but if the clips are imported into FCP the TC of each clip is correct. I would assume the same is true for Premiere.

Originally Posted by John Knight

So... if this is the case.... what I would love to do is the following.

Record HDV to tape, and SD to CF card.

Edit SD in Premiere Pro CS3 and deliver to client on DVD.

In the future... delete the SD content from HDD, capture HDV from tapes, swap/replace the SD with HDV with timeline/sound/filters/fades etc all perfectly in place. Deliver on Blu-Ray.

In the real world... is this possible? (would test myself but CF card not arrived yet)

I don't really see any advantage in doing a "SD-then-reconnect-HD" workflow for 25Mbps HDV/DV. The files sizes of SD-DV and HDV are EXACTLY THE SAME! Wouldn't it be less time-consuming to simply post in the native format and downconvert to DVD when necessary? The only advantage I can think of is uncompressed audio.

Originally Posted by John Miller

Here's something I stumbled across a while back with a Sony PDX-10:

If you are recording to tape and simultaneously capturing to a computer then the timecode on the tape is not the same as in the captured file. There is about a 2 or 3 frame difference.

This is important if you capture live material and, for some reason, need to recapture a part of it from tape - the timecodes won't match.

I haven't tested this with any other camcorders, though.

This sort of makes sense with a DV/DVCAM format since the TC track is independent of the video track, which may be subject to firewire latency in this situation. However, it seems to me that with HDV the TC data is embedded as part of the encoded signal. I'm not intimately familiar with the way Sony records HDV to tape but I would assume that the TC generator adds timecode to the stream before it is sent to the firewire port and tape transport for recording. I haven't checked the accuracy down to the frame of tape vs tapeless recordings but I am assuming they are identical.

[Arnaud Keil]

Hi Tim,

I'm using CS3, and I have no TC using the CF footage, for all m2t files avi or raw dv files. I've tried them all.
It seems to be an issue. But it doesn't matter, I usually edit without the need of TC. And if I need it, I will use the tape to capture footage. Thanks for your advice.