FCP "can't find timecode" from Z7 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-Z7 / HVR-S270

Sony HVR-Z7 / HVR-S270
Handheld and shoulder mount versions of this Sony 3-CMOS HDV camcorder.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 7th, 2008, 11:16 AM   #1
Tourist
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 1
FCP "can't find timecode" from Z7

Recently shot a short on my brand new Z7. I've shot on tape in DV SP and DVCAM, imported to FCP no problem. I've shot HDV to my CF cards, transfered to FCP, no problem.

I shot this short in HDV to miniDV tapes. There are NO timecode breaks, no tape damage. I'm using the camera as my playback/capture device (for now). The device control in FCP works fine, the timecode shows up in the Log and Capture window consistently and correctly. I logged 60 clips off the 1st tape, went to batch capture with 20 frame handles, and ran into a problem fairly quickly.

FCP will stop the batch, report an error, saying "Unable to find timecode". What doesn't make sense to me is that the device control works and it cues up the tape fine, but then jogs back and forth a bit, before shooting out the error message. Some clips would work fine, some just can't be batched. I tried changing the capture device settings, and fussing around, but nothing helped. 10 out of 60 clips had this error, and while it's not life-ending, it took 6 hours to capture the tape, when it should have been fully automatic.

Anyone have any ideas? Any word on issues with iLink into FCP?
Tim Whitney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 01:22 PM   #2
Tourist
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: London
Posts: 3
How to transfer footage from memory record unit into FCP or Express.

Hello Tim. Sorry to answer your question with a question. Aswell as being new to computer editing I'm new to DVi and and not sure how to start a new thread yet(!) but I may have a few answers for you in the long run. I'm a pro cameraman (docs, tv) and teacher (camera directing to pros and students) and may be able to get some answers from the horses mouth (BBC, Tv editors, Sony...when they reply).

My Q: Did you have to use any software to get your material into fcp and what selections did you make on FCP?

So you know: I plan to record HDV to tape and flash cards in synchro mode using cache recording (Ive bought 5 x 16gig flash cards and will change each flash card with each tape, I never shoot more than 5 tapes a day). I will use tape as my archive and the flash cards to get my stuff into the computer quickly, storing on external hard drives and re using the cards the next day. I have been advised to edit in HDV however (apparently FCP struggles with HDV??), so may have to record HDV to tape and DVCam to flash, returning to tapes for the "online".
Tim Clements is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 01:36 PM   #3
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cornsay Durham UK
Posts: 1,941
Tim I have a workflow similar to yours and it is not true that FCP struggles with HDV, it is the same bit rate as DVcam and I find it is fine on my macbook pro and i-mac 24 inch.

Note I am using the CF as a working medium but find that the sony plug in for log and transfer will not work on my systems so I am using a piece of wrapping software called clipwrap.

I shoot on Z7 and S270.

Now back to the timecode problem, sounds like a timecode dropout I have had this a few times with tape from my Z7 but now I have a CF workflow working 100% I am just using the compact flash cards in HDV all the time now. I do all editing in HDV and then produce a pro res 422 1080i 25p master file. All DV/DVcam/appleTV and desktop files are created from this master.

I dont use the cache recording as I have found it to slow things down too much.
__________________
Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/
Gary Nattrass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 01:51 PM   #4
Tourist
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: London
Posts: 3
Thanks Garry, I'll look for that software and try it out. I ve worked out how to do a thread so wont interupt any further!
Tim Clements is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 06:46 PM   #5
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cornsay Durham UK
Posts: 1,941
Clipwrap here:ClipWrap
__________________
Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/
Gary Nattrass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2008, 02:56 AM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: North Hills, CA
Posts: 40
What's probably happening is there isnt enough slack between the start of the tape and the first frame that needs to capture. I've had this issue with log and capturing before (both with HD work and SD work) and from what I noticed, you should give a 4 or 5 second slack before the very first timecode you want to capture otherwise final cut would try to rewind back, only to hit the beginning, and then fast forward a bit.

So since you have everything logged already (as i usually do when i come across this problem) is to select all but the very first clip to be captured (and by first, im talking about first in line by timecode) and capture those. Then when you're done, rewind the tape and do a manual capture in the capture window. I hope all of this makes sense. If not, I'll try to take the time to make clearer directions for you.
Ryan Valle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2008, 07:51 AM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada
Posts: 4,087
What Ryan is talking about here is called Pre-Roll. Ever watch a film production and hear the camera operator call "Speed!"? The camera op is indicating that the transport has started, has run for 3 - 5 seconds and now everything has accelerated and is running at full "speed".

We have the same thing in video. It takes time for the tape transport to go from a dead stop to full speed. During that interval timecode is unreliable as the "one per frame" markers are at slightly differing distance from each other. Once the tape is at "speed", the timecode is stable.

The NICE thing about the smaller form factor tape we are now accustomed to using is that the transport seems to get up to speed faster than back in the days of 3/4". In FCP in one of the Preferences (found under the Final Cut Pro menu item in the menu bar), you can adjust the settings for your Capture Preset INCLUDING PreRoll. FCP ships with a 3 second preroll I believe so it finds the first frame you've asked it to capture, rolls back 3 seconds and tries to roll with continuous timecode. If timecode during this period is unstable (see above), capture fails.

So, a possible working solution is to lower your Capture Preset PreRoll to 1 second. That way FCP only rolls back 1 second before trying to capture. This SEEMS to work most of the time. Realize though that this is a work around: any working pro should insist that the camera roll undisturbed for 5 seconds before ANY necessary visuals. This is where tape-free capture will really shine, once we get ALL the bugs and kinks worked out.

Cheers and good luck!

ADDENDUM: After a closer reading of the original post:

I've had issues capturing from Sony HDV cameras in the past clips that start AFTER the camera was either turned off OR the heads "spun down" to avoid undue damage to the tape. Every time the tape heads stop turning, I allow an EXTRA 5 seconds, just to ensure not only the Timecode but the MPEG Stream are stable.
__________________
Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster
www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/
Shaun Roemich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2008, 04:00 PM   #8
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: North Hills, CA
Posts: 40
Yup. Pre-roll, that's what I was talking about. I just couldn't remember the name.

I didn't know about the pre-roll settings in FCP so I am surely going to start using that when I have trouble with the lack of pre-roll on a tape. Typically, if you run a few second of bars and tone at the beginning of the tape (30 seconds is a good number), you probably won't have an issue with not enough pre-roll.
Ryan Valle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2009, 03:22 PM   #9
New Boot
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6
pre roll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Valle View Post
.....Typically, if you run a few second of bars and tone at the beginning of the tape (30 seconds is a good number), you probably won't have an issue with not enough pre-roll.

Not only at the head of the tape, but when you power down, you may cause a time code break. I often leave the camera powered on all day long (except lunch and location changes) -- to insure as little disruption as possible to the time code.. I just change batteries at lunch and we're good all day. At the end of the tape and before I power down, I often roll bars or black for post-roll - which is also important.

JB
__________________
http://www.jblfilms.com/
J.B. Letchinger is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-Z7 / HVR-S270

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:31 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network