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Sony HVR-Z7 / HVR-S270
Handheld and shoulder mount versions of this Sony 3-CMOS HDV camcorder.


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Old August 25th, 2008, 10:58 PM   #31
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I was really psyched up to buy a Z7 and was on the verge of placing an order in the next week or two - until I read the article referenced above and actually followed the link to Russ Andersson's page. Russ is the author of Syntheyes (match moving/motion tracking etc) software . I've met him and I think he's a really straight shooter. His take is - say no to CMOS

Russ's helicopter footage with a rolling shutter CMOS camera is at

http://www.ssontech.com/content/skool.mov

It wasn't a Z7 but it's so horrible it's made me put the brakes on re buying a CMOS camera. I don't intend to shoot from a helicopter but I DO want to do match moving.

Can anyone convince me that the Z7/EX1 etc won't be this bad?
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Old August 26th, 2008, 12:18 AM   #32
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that clip looks really bad are you sure it's from a cmos camera

Rob
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Old August 26th, 2008, 12:50 AM   #33
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Jim,

I shoot with our Z7 from a helicopter regularly, high speed low passes etc.
NEVER have I seen anything like this footage..do you really think Sony would or could sell a
6000 dollar camera which would do this? Nonsens. This is manipulated to make a point, or a defective camera.
There is a review and a video from Adam Wilt, telling the exact same thing as my experience;
even if you try to get this jelly effect by violently whipping the camera, it is barely
noticeable. By the time you move the cam so fast, the image is moving so quickly/ is so blurred
that the jelly effect -if any- is not visible anymore (and the footage cannot be tracked anyway.)
Take a look at our webpage
NL jnc film produkties EEE
It's a short promo we made, filmed from a chopper, and motion-tracked.
Any deforming you might see is from the stabilising software..the raw footage is solid,
although shaky from time to time ;-)
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Old August 26th, 2008, 12:54 AM   #34
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Here's the link to his article. He says it was a Canon HV-20.

www.ssontech.com :: View topic - Just Say NO to CMOS Cameras!

He also says that Sony has tried to minimize it by "rolling the shutter faster" or in other words, speeding up the read-out.

If you rent the Z7 again you might try a vibration test of some kind - maybe shooting from a car on a bumpy road at speed or something.

Hope it isn't as bad as the Canon, but I really trust Russ's technical judgement.

EDIT

Found some more info on this

http://rebelsguide.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=340

(Syntheyes also does a neat job of stabilizing a moving camera clip based on solving in 3D instead of 2D, which has the advantage of keeping the vanishing point centered in the frame)
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Old August 26th, 2008, 01:14 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Caplan View Post
This is the best article I've read that explains the CCD vs CMOS // roller-shutter issue, with screenshots and video examples from the Z7U:

CMOS Rolling Shutter

Thank you Scott for posting this link, this now explains it all.
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Old August 26th, 2008, 01:33 AM   #36
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Nice footage John.
Was that all shot with the Z7? How did you stablize the footage? or rather what software did you use?
I cant see any rolling shuter in that.

Simon
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Old August 26th, 2008, 01:41 AM   #37
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thnx Simon,

yes, all was shot with the Z7, heli shots with OIS off,
stabilised with Mercalli software.
proDAD - Mercalli -- Video Stabilizer


john
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Old August 26th, 2008, 01:50 AM   #38
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Ah Mercalli, great product I use it all the time.
What do you edit on?

Simon
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Old August 26th, 2008, 01:56 AM   #39
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PremierePro CS3 v3.2 with Matrox RT.X2, After Effects CS3
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Old August 26th, 2008, 02:24 AM   #40
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This is not the right thread and I dont what to hijack it but while John is here. What difference does the Matrox RT.X2 make.

Simon
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Old August 26th, 2008, 02:28 AM   #41
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John,

I'm trying to look at the clip you reference, but so far it won't play in either Opera or Firefox or Explorer.

I'll give Safari a shot next!
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Old August 26th, 2008, 02:58 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Ash View Post
This is not the right thread and I dont what to hijack it but while John is here. What difference does the Matrox RT.X2 make.

Simon

I also use the same combination. The RT.X2 puts Premierre on steroids, you can add effects, chroma key on multiple tracks and there isn't any sign of the thin red line (render).

The card is not without its own set of problems, you will need a big computer case to accomodate the extra long RT X2 card and make sure that your other hardware is all compatible. Once up and running it is fast.

Suggest you take a look at the Matrox forum for full details.
Matrox RTX2 User Forum :: Index
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Old August 26th, 2008, 04:57 AM   #43
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yep, probably we're hijacking..sorry..

jim, it's a .wmv file, could take some time (20 secs?) before it starts..
works for me in explorer 6 or 7
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Old August 26th, 2008, 11:37 PM   #44
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OK - so far haven't been able to look at it in Firefox, Opera, Explorer, or Safari.

I get the page and a message saying it may take a few seconds to start - and then nothing at all even after 5 minutes.

Could you post a direct link to the wmv file itself if you don't mind?

Actually - If it looks and tracks as well as you say I'd like to ask Russ Andersson to at least take a look at it. What do you think?

Wish I had known all this stuff a couple of weeks back - I talked to him at SIGGRAPH in LA on 8/12 and I would have asked him about it in person.
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Old August 26th, 2008, 11:55 PM   #45
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Hey there chunky,

Try http://www.jncfilm.com/pages/eee.wmv
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