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Sony HVR-Z7 / HVR-S270
Handheld and shoulder mount versions of this Sony 3-CMOS HDV camcorder.


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Old April 2nd, 2013, 03:29 AM   #1
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Image direct from HDMI output ...

Good morning all,

Rather than sell my old Z7, I decided that I'd dump the HDV aspect of the camera and utilise the HDMI output.

In order to capture the output, I bought a Ninja-2 HDMI recorder. However, I have noticed that whenever the camera pans or tilts (subjects moving through a lock-off shot seem to be OK), the images seem to be a bit blurred; not quite has sharp as I would have expected. I should point out that the shutter is OFF.

Here is a quick example of what I'm talking about:

The advantages of using a Ninja-2 are thatI get achieve a far longer recording time and a much better image; 18/25Mbs @ 4:2:0 vs 100 Mbs @ 4:2:2.

So, I believe that the output (or a setting within the Z7 is causing this problem). If anyone might be able to point me in the right direction, then I would be forever grateful.

Kind regards,

Stuart
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 03:06 AM   #2
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Re: Image direct from HDMI output ...

Are you in 25p? If so, shutter should be on at 1/50.

You will get better quality with ProRes HQ and Progressive Scan mode on the Z7. I don't recommend working with ProRes in interlaced.
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 03:09 AM   #3
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Re: Image direct from HDMI output ...

Jack,

Many thanks for your reply.

Yes, I shoot 25p. I'll conduct a quick trial here and get back to you if you don't mind.

Kind regards,

Stuart
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 03:47 AM   #4
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Re: Image direct from HDMI output ...

Personally, I can't see a difference ..?

Last edited by Stuart McAlister; April 3rd, 2013 at 12:01 PM.
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 10:26 AM   #5
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Re: Image direct from HDMI output ...

Hi Stuart,

My experience with camcorders that offer progressive shooting modes is that most will always output 1080i over the HDMI or Component outputs, even if shooting 1080p. This is done for compatibility with more displays.

So I'm assuming the the ProRes clips from Ninja 2 are going to be 1080i50 in your case, so what edit mode are you using in your NLE - 1080p, or 1080i?

Thanks
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 11:35 AM   #6
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Re: Image direct from HDMI output ...

Dear Jeff,

Thank you for your reply.

The Ninja-2 is set to record in ProRes 422 in 1080p25 and the Z7 the output is REC FORMAT 1080i. So, straight away I have a conflict of interests. The Ninja-2 is switchable between 1080p25 and 1080i50.

Now, by switching the Ninja-2 into 1080i50, then shooting a clip on the Z7 at 1080i and INTERLACED at 50, the image on the monitors of both the Ninja-2 and the Z7 looks far, far smoother.

Once the clip is dropped into Final Cut v7, I select 'yes' to match the sequence settings to the clip settings, yet once I look at SEQUENCE > SETTINGS, I see that it is;

HDTV 1080i at 25fps. Strange, when the Z7 is selected as 1080i and INTERLACED at 50 and the Ninja-2 at 1080i50. Playback looks staggered.

So then I start again and choose what I believe are the correct clip settings BEFORE I drop the clip in:

HDTV 1080i at 50fps

And now FCP needs to render ... which means that it's telling me that no matter what the Z7 and the Ninja-2 have recorded, it's not right. If aI put a clip straight out of the Ninja-2 into FCP, then FCP is telling me that it's 25fps ... however, the picture does look smoother.

To surmise; the Z7 is producing an INTERLACED image out of the HDMI output (by default?) and the Ninja-2 is only switchable between 1080p25 and 1080i50.

Your thoughts?

Stuart

EDIT: INTERESTING READ - ITEM 10 PULLDOWN: http://www.atomos.com/ninja2/manual/...1-NOV-2012.pdf

Last edited by Stuart McAlister; April 3rd, 2013 at 12:00 PM. Reason: insertion of a link
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Old January 4th, 2015, 08:38 AM   #7
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Re: Image direct from HDMI output ...

Isn't 1080i50 referring to 50 fields per second , which interlace to 25 frames per second ? Each frame being made up of two fields , the first being the odd TV lines then the second being the even lines .

That was always my understanding , someone please correct me if I'm wrong .
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Old January 4th, 2015, 11:36 AM   #8
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Re: Image direct from HDMI output ...

Absolutely right Derek.

Dave
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Old January 7th, 2015, 12:27 AM   #9
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Re: Image direct from HDMI output ...

OK , leading on from the above . I have the smaller HVR-V1e , and I also shoot at 1080i50 . With the used prices falling the way they are , I hope to pick up a Z7 before long and keep the V1 as a second camera .

Now , I know that HDV records at 1440 ( wide pixels ) x 1080 to produce a widescreen image , and I ingest this via FireWire into a 1920x1080 50i timeline in FCP7 which works fine for me . Yet , if I plug my camcorder via HDMI into my 46" Samsung LED TV in the living room and play back off tape , the TV identifies the incoming signal as 1920x1080 50i .

I presume the camcorder must be upscaling the signal coming off the tape as , surely , it can't be a 'true' 1920x1080 signal since this won't exist on the tape to begin with ? I know live output from the camera will be 1920x1080 , but presumably tape playback is converting 1440 wide pixels into 1920 square ones and interpolating somehow ?

I don't have any problem with this ; I'm just curious .
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Old April 11th, 2015, 09:22 PM   #10
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Re: Image direct from HDMI output ...

Derek, I am still shooting with the HVR-Z7 as well. A note on an original Sony brochure upon the release of that camera states, that the pre-compressed 1920x1080i/4:2:2 signal is output from the HDMI connector. How is that to be understood from a HDV (1080z1440) camera? I am using a NanoFlash with the camera, and I am very happy with my results. I know that the Nano 'reconfigures' the image to 1080x1920. I am using the camera mainly for wildlife, and any newer model with larger censor or 4K would reduce the magnification capabilities on the interchanged Tele lens.

Chers,

Gerd

Last edited by Gerd Kogler; April 11th, 2015 at 09:27 PM. Reason: trying to add an image
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