Got My Three EA50's!

Joel Corral · February 14th, 2013, 01:35 PM

well,

My first production work with the EA50's is complete and not sure if it will make it to post. My initial feelings are a little mixed. Overall I most certainly need more time with the cameras before next weeks shoot.

(2 camera operators manning the tripods Myself on the crane)

My biggest problem was focus for the fixed shots. I really didn't know what to expect with the stock lens. Every time my subject moved slightly focus was lost. The shallow depth of field is great but very hard to keep focus. I knew focusing would be an issue just not to this degree. I am hoping that AF will be able to maintain focus and will experiment with it today.

Secondly,
It seems as though my old FX1 had better light sensitivity. FX1 is rated by Sony as 3 LUX and the EA50 is 1.7 LUX. With the same lighting environment I had to boost the gain to 15db! (FX1 @ 3db) Ea50 was decent maybe for some at 15db but a bit too noisy for my liking and not what I expected. Modifying the settings in the picture profile helped, although i didn't want to dabble into those settings yet i was forced to.

Setting the EA50's to Gamma ITU709 & Color Mode ITU709 Matrix along with a few other tweaks allowed me a bit more light sensitivity but in the end i still had to boost the gain to 15db. :(

Matching the EA50's naturally was a synch. The colors are fantastic deep & rich. skin tones soft and lovely. The flyby crane shots that I shot came out fair with no noticeable focus issues and power zoom mode was silky smooth....

I want to love this camera and I am confident that I will overcome the Focus issues with practice but the light sensitivity is a concern. I expected more light sensitivity than my 9 year old FX1's.

Help on any settings to make the EA50's more sensitive to light would be greatly appreciated.

JC

Joel Corral · February 14th, 2013, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Digges

Joel,

Are you doing a live internet broadcast? I do a lot of them so I would be interested in hearing how you do it? What switcher are you using?

Steven,

No live internet broadcast & no switchers. I shoot live then edit multicam for Television broadcast on 2 networks. CTN and Word Network. Yes, a televangelist!

JC

Noa Put · February 14th, 2013, 02:00 PM

When you where at 15db gain, was the lens zoomed in a lot at that moment?
Have you tried the factory standard pp3 preset?

Joel Corral · February 14th, 2013, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

When you where at 15db gain, was the lens zoomed in a lot at that moment?
Have you tried the factory standard pp3 preset?

yes, the main shots were basically locked down one tight & one wide of course the operator panned to follow subject. The subject is trained to stay in "box" due to lighting issues. i would say a 10' x 7' area or so. the tight shot was zoomed about half way i would say, not sure of the distance but i believe the cameras are about 9 feet from the subject...

JC

Steven Digges · February 14th, 2013, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel Corral

Steven,

No live internet broadcast & no switchers. I shoot live then edit multicam for Television broadcast on 2 networks. CTN and Word Network. Yes, a televangelist!

JC

Brea.....I had already guessed televangelist......not sure why Brea helped tip me? Having a switcher in line going out to hard drives might cut your editing time dramatically. I record a switched feed, as well as each cameras ISO to hard drives. Then in post I only have to "clean up" the program feed that was switched live. Just food for thought.

Steve

Steven Digges · February 14th, 2013, 02:46 PM

Joel,

My standard method of focus with servo lenses and stage work (I have done a lot of it) is to use manual focus along with the button that temporarily puts it into auto until you let go. I also, ALLWAYS have a good external monitor for me and other operators. I would never make them count on a viewfinder or LCD.

I have not done stage work yet with my EA50 but that technique worked well with my Canons.

Steve

Noa Put · February 14th, 2013, 03:21 PM

You have to consider the stocklens on the ea50 is slow, especially when you start zooming in as it ramps fast meaning you have to compensate with even higher gain. The only way to prevent this is to have a fixed f2.8 zoom lens but then you"ll loose the powerzoom option.

I also think that the stocklens requires sufficient light if you are filming events on a stage, next week friday I"ll also know more as I have to do a stage performance and will be taking my cx730 with me to shoot side by side, Friday is rehearsals so I can do some trials. I am quite close to the stage so then I don't need to zoom in that much.

Regarding the focus issue, you could consider using the peaking option which can help but it needs sufficient light but the magnify button is also a great option to quickly check during recording. Focus is indeed much more critical on large sensor camera's then on small ones.

I also found that the pp3 preset gives the most "low light" performance as it is very flat but gives most latitude and is a good starting point if you want to do your own colorcorrection.

Joel Corral · February 14th, 2013, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Digges

Brea.....I had already guessed televangelist......not sure why Brea helped tip me?

Steve

LOL! yes i have considered a switcher many times, I am ok with multicam editing in fact i enjoy it! I feel if I am not broadcasting live then I would rather multicam edit and add the switch with fades to my liking..

JC

Joel Corral · February 14th, 2013, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Digges

Joel,

My standard method of focus with servo lenses and stage work (I have done a lot of it) is to use manual focus along with the button that temporarily puts it into auto until you let go. I also, ALLWAYS have a good external monitor for me and other operators. I would never make them count on a viewfinder or LCD.

I have not done stage work yet with my EA50 but that technique worked well with my Canons.

Steve

Great tip i will see if i can get my guys to "think outside the box" ....

What about if i set up "wider" and use digital zoom instead of power zoom to frame the shot. That way the lens is more open i can probably open at least 2 stops for more light and being wider may give a greater area of focus thus being more forgiving when the subject moves out of range?

Thoughts?

Steven Digges · February 14th, 2013, 04:50 PM

Almost....

Wider as in smaller MM# = more DOF

Opening up as in smaller F-Stop # (larger aperture) = less DOF

Your digital zoom idea is clever and might work if you do not "open up aperture".

With stage lighting you are lucky to be able to define your batters box. But I always meter it when we are setting and focusing for a flat stage wash. If there is a dark spot the presenter or talent will find it every time and plant themselves there. With the control you have over your set it should be easy to get things right.

If you do not have a light meter here is one for $5.00 for I-phone or I-pad

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...meter-app.html

Most apps I have tried to replace expensive meters are junk. This one seems to be getting good reviews. I am going to try it.

Steve

Joel Corral · February 14th, 2013, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Digges

Almost....

Wider as in smaller MM# = more DOF

Opening up as in smaller F-Stop # (larger aperture) = less DOF

Your digital zoom idea is clever and might work if you do not "open up aperture".

With stage lighting you are lucky to be able to define your batters box. But I always meter it when we are setting and focusing for a flat stage wash. If there is a dark spot the presenter or talent will find it every time and plant themselves there. With the control you have over your set it should be easy to get things right.

If you do not have a light meter here is one for $5.00 for I-phone or I-pad

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...meter-app.html

Most apps I have tried to replace expensive meters are junk. This one seems to be getting good reviews. I am going to try it.

Steve

thanks, wonder if they have one for android....?

Noa Put · February 15th, 2013, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Digges

If you do not have a light meter here is one for $5.00 for I-phone or I-pad

Do you use a lightmeter often? For the few stage performances I do every year just using the zebra's at 100% allows me to prevent blown out area's and I always do the exposure manually on 2 camera's simultaniously. Only not on the unmanned camera's where I might set the ev to -2 and keep those camera's wider, only when the the stage is pitchblack and they use a strong spotlight my unmanned camera's give clipped highlights but in those case I adjust accordingly on the 2 camera's I operate using those zebra's again. Not easy to do but it has worked out fine so far.

Steven Digges · February 15th, 2013, 01:11 PM

Hi Noa,

Yes I use a meter a lot, but not to set exposure. I use it to judge contrast range when we are setting the lights. This is more for corporate productions than theater and I often have control over the call so the LD will do what I ask. If we are going to video record the show it is often something like this.

Five or six different "looks" to the set. Maybe some movers maybe not. One of the set ups I make sure is there is a flat stage wash for the business presentations. That is when I use a meter. I find it is more accurate than me just walking around up there. I want that light EVEN.

Steve

Troy Moss · February 15th, 2013, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel Corral

Steven,

No live internet broadcast & no switchers. I shoot live then edit multicam for Television broadcast on 2 networks. CTN and Word Network. Yes, a televangelist!

JC

Any relation to Dr. Michelle Corral?

Ron Evans · February 16th, 2013, 07:57 AM

All my stuff is theatre so have no control over lighting at all. I do like Noa, unattended small Sony's set iAuto ON and ev at -2. NX5U is full manual, zebras at 90% and with 2 buttons set for spotlight and ev -2 so that if the gain range goes outside the switch settings I can just hit the gain button to go into auto and these switch settings then take over in auto mode. Still have gain limit at 15 as the NX5U is noisy !!! EA50 should work the same way. My wife uses a CX700 for closeups set at ev -1 and this is clean all the way to 21db !! Much better than the NX5U.

Ron Evans

February 14th, 2013, 01:35 PM	#16
Joel Corral Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brea, CA Posts: 356	Re: Got My Three EA50's! well, My first production work with the EA50's is complete and not sure if it will make it to post. My initial feelings are a little mixed. Overall I most certainly need more time with the cameras before next weeks shoot. (2 camera operators manning the tripods Myself on the crane) My biggest problem was focus for the fixed shots. I really didn't know what to expect with the stock lens. Every time my subject moved slightly focus was lost. The shallow depth of field is great but very hard to keep focus. I knew focusing would be an issue just not to this degree. I am hoping that AF will be able to maintain focus and will experiment with it today. Secondly, It seems as though my old FX1 had better light sensitivity. FX1 is rated by Sony as 3 LUX and the EA50 is 1.7 LUX. With the same lighting environment I had to boost the gain to 15db! (FX1 @ 3db) Ea50 was decent maybe for some at 15db but a bit too noisy for my liking and not what I expected. Modifying the settings in the picture profile helped, although i didn't want to dabble into those settings yet i was forced to. Setting the EA50's to Gamma ITU709 & Color Mode ITU709 Matrix along with a few other tweaks allowed me a bit more light sensitivity but in the end i still had to boost the gain to 15db. :( Matching the EA50's naturally was a synch. The colors are fantastic deep & rich. skin tones soft and lovely. The flyby crane shots that I shot came out fair with no noticeable focus issues and power zoom mode was silky smooth.... I want to love this camera and I am confident that I will overcome the Focus issues with practice but the light sensitivity is a concern. I expected more light sensitivity than my 9 year old FX1's. Help on any settings to make the EA50's more sensitive to light would be greatly appreciated. JC

February 14th, 2013, 02:00 PM	#18
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: Got My Three EA50's! When you where at 15db gain, was the lens zoomed in a lot at that moment? Have you tried the factory standard pp3 preset?

February 14th, 2013, 02:46 PM	#21
Steven Digges Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,828	Re: Got My Three EA50's! Joel, My standard method of focus with servo lenses and stage work (I have done a lot of it) is to use manual focus along with the button that temporarily puts it into auto until you let go. I also, ALLWAYS have a good external monitor for me and other operators. I would never make them count on a viewfinder or LCD. I have not done stage work yet with my EA50 but that technique worked well with my Canons. Steve __________________ www.CorporateShow.com Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!

February 14th, 2013, 03:21 PM	#22
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: Got My Three EA50's! You have to consider the stocklens on the ea50 is slow, especially when you start zooming in as it ramps fast meaning you have to compensate with even higher gain. The only way to prevent this is to have a fixed f2.8 zoom lens but then you"ll loose the powerzoom option. I also think that the stocklens requires sufficient light if you are filming events on a stage, next week friday I"ll also know more as I have to do a stage performance and will be taking my cx730 with me to shoot side by side, Friday is rehearsals so I can do some trials. I am quite close to the stage so then I don't need to zoom in that much. Regarding the focus issue, you could consider using the peaking option which can help but it needs sufficient light but the magnify button is also a great option to quickly check during recording. Focus is indeed much more critical on large sensor camera's then on small ones. I also found that the pp3 preset gives the most "low light" performance as it is very flat but gives most latitude and is a good starting point if you want to do your own colorcorrection.

February 14th, 2013, 04:50 PM	#25
Steven Digges Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,828	Re: Got My Three EA50's! Almost.... Wider as in smaller MM# = more DOF Opening up as in smaller F-Stop # (larger aperture) = less DOF Your digital zoom idea is clever and might work if you do not "open up aperture". With stage lighting you are lucky to be able to define your batters box. But I always meter it when we are setting and focusing for a flat stage wash. If there is a dark spot the presenter or talent will find it every time and plant themselves there. With the control you have over your set it should be easy to get things right. If you do not have a light meter here is one for $5.00 for I-phone or I-pad http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...meter-app.html Most apps I have tried to replace expensive meters are junk. This one seems to be getting good reviews. I am going to try it. Steve __________________ www.CorporateShow.com Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!

February 15th, 2013, 01:11 PM	#28
Steven Digges Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,828	Re: Got My Three EA50's! Hi Noa, Yes I use a meter a lot, but not to set exposure. I use it to judge contrast range when we are setting the lights. This is more for corporate productions than theater and I often have control over the call so the LD will do what I ask. If we are going to video record the show it is often something like this. Five or six different "looks" to the set. Maybe some movers maybe not. One of the set ups I make sure is there is a flat stage wash for the business presentations. That is when I use a meter. I find it is more accurate than me just walking around up there. I want that light EVEN. Steve __________________ www.CorporateShow.com Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!

February 16th, 2013, 07:57 AM	#30
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: Got My Three EA50's! All my stuff is theatre so have no control over lighting at all. I do like Noa, unattended small Sony's set iAuto ON and ev at -2. NX5U is full manual, zebras at 90% and with 2 buttons set for spotlight and ev -2 so that if the gain range goes outside the switch settings I can just hit the gain button to go into auto and these switch settings then take over in auto mode. Still have gain limit at 15 as the NX5U is noisy !!! EA50 should work the same way. My wife uses a CX700 for closeups set at ev -1 and this is clean all the way to 21db !! Much better than the NX5U. Ron Evans