Sound issue related to recording formats

[Steve Bobilin]

I was doing some test shots and when I put the SD card in the reader the file transferred fine to the computer—but no sound. I double checked the mic, but then I noticed when I played the SD card back in the camera I could head sound fine. Hmmm. So then I remembered I had changed the rec format to 1080/60p PS, so I figured maybe if I reformat the card after changing the setting—but no. No matter what I did I could not get the file to the computer via SD reader with any sound.

I think someone had a similar problem, but I couldn't find the thread. Randy's card problem might be related.

Anyway, since I had time on my hands I tried recoding in various formats on to the same SD card which was freshly formatted in default 24p. Most of them worked fine, but not that 60p PS format. Then I noticed on page 44 of the manual it says:

"Movies recorded with the recording mode set to
PS or FX on [ REC FORMAT] can be
saved on an external media device only (p. 104)."

But all of the FX formats worked for me—just not that PS format.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Steve

What audio format are you using?? I had issues at first but I cannot remember exactly what it was BUT I changed my format from Linear PCM to Dolby and everything worked again. I think there might be an issue with PCM is some modes where your NLE won't play it so first try the Audio Set in the menu and change PCM to Dolby... Sorry I cannot exactly remember the exact problem I had with audio as it was 15 months ago when I got the first camera but I do know that changing back to Dolby solved everything!!

Chris

[Steve Bobilin]

Yes, I was using linear PCM. I should do a more comprehensive test to see if that's the thing. I also need to find that USB cable and see if that solves the issue or at least a work around. I just probably won't use 60p. I usually do 24p. 60i works though. What a weird issue.

[Paul R Johnson]

Do you mean the audio file doesn't appear in the editor at all, or appears but is silent. In premiere the occasional file format has the sound separate, and you need to bring in the video and audio separately. Have you checked there isn't a separate audio file hanging around?

[Steve Bobilin]

Wow, Paul you were right.

I was actually just watching the clips on VLC since they were just test clips. Just .MTS clips. As soon as I imported them into premier magically the original file changed into 3 files each, a .MTS file, a .MTS 48000.cfa file, and a MTS 48000.pek file. I forgot about that, and I never noticed that those are the audio files.
Are cfa and pek channel 1 & 2, right and left?

[Chris Harding]

That might have been the reason I changed formats to Dolby ! I'm using Sony Vegas so I wonder if it would also split the files into 3 streams ...that sounds complicated so I'll stick to Dolby ..my audio is always awesome so there is no reason to change to PCM

Chris

[Christopher Young]

Vegas handles the PCM tracks just fine. I choose PCM every day over the Dolby. The Dolby track is a 'lossy' 256 kbps AC-3 compressed channel whereas the PCM is a beefy uncompressed 1,536 kbps. That's six times the data rate. If you need to apply any serious post processing plugins on your audio, e.g. Eq, noise reduction, compressors, maximizers etc. the PCM tracks are pretty transparent. The Dolby tracks don't hold up as well as the PCM when you render out. You are subjecting an already compressed track to another layer of compression when you make DVDs, BDs or MP4s. The PCMs use more recording space but IMHO that's a small trade off.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

[Steve Bobilin]

I prefer to use PCM as well. I found this explanation and a work around, at least for premiere.

I tried unchecking the described box and voila! Instead of adding extra files upon importing, it just doesn't. I'm sure it caches them somewhere, but I gave the original files a uniquename.MTS, and when I searched my computer I didn't find them anywhere. That cleans up the neatness of the source folders so you don't have a zillion files.

I guess though there may be some reason why a person would want to access those audio files.

[Jon R. Hand]

I don't know anyone who would shoot in Dolby. Why???

[Marlon Martins]

i used primary PCM in my cam, but i was making automation scripts to convert to intermediate AVI.

but for some reason some files did not process correctly the audio. many different softwares, still some files don't converted correctly the audio part.

changed to dolby, BAM, all worked perfectly.

as i use audio on cam mostly to give a "ambiance" and the "real" audio over audio recorders, AC3 works best for me.

[Paul R Johnson]

It caught me out a couple of times - Not certain, but I thing the .pek file is just the visual waveform. I don't know why some files do this and others don't but once you get them back into the timeline, it's fine.

[Michael Spanheimer]

Hi

the issue should be the 50p(in your case 60p) mode. I once had the same problem,
and the soltion was to use the Program ClipWrap (ClipWrap : Easy AVCHD and HDV Conversion for the Mac - divergent media)
when you import the processed files, the Audio will work fine again.
(No need to recode the video!!)

[Chris Harding]

Hi Jon

Why not? If it suits you then why not use it. It gives me no hassles, my audio is pristine and I rarely need to process it because my source is good. I guess it might be useful if your source video is poor but I prefer to feed good stuff into the camera and naturally get good stuff out.

Sony put the options in the camera so why would they do that if it didn't work? It's the same with record formats ..some say "why would you record in anything else but 50/60P" I do and I have far less hassles, with artifacts and weird colours on over-exposed highlights due to the low bitrate ... Again Sony give you options and they all work both on audio and video. You have a choice on both. For any particular project they all have a place otherwise they wouldn't be there.

Chris

[Steve Bobilin]

I was able to resolve the issue thanks to all your help. I can now import into CS6 without issues and I don't have to look at the cfa and pek files because I unchecked a box in preferences. I did figure out where those cache files are stored (on my mac) username/library/application support/adobe/common. Pek is the audio wave form, and cfa is the conformed audio, which evidently lets you preview sound. I also noticed in the CS6 preferences that you can "clean up" the cache, I tried that for good measure and it seems to dump unused files from old projects. These would apparently reappear were I to re-open old projects.
I wonder if using Dolby would also generate hidden cache files somewhere. Perhaps that would be an option if I ever wanted to use that option.
I'm glad to have resolved this because I want to use 60p to avoid so much rolling shutter.

[Jon R. Hand]

Hi Chris,

I am a documentary filmmaker-videographer (since 1971). As I said in my post, I know no professionals (I'm not talking about the wedding folks) who would ever shoot in Dolby, AND interlaced for that matter. Just an observation. Glad it works for you my friend.

Jon