Pixellation in 50P/60P mode

Serggio Lamas · August 29th, 2014, 05:12 AM

thanks jody the shutter speed is 150 but and 50 shutter speed with f 16 have the problem

Chris Harding · August 29th, 2014, 05:23 AM

It's night time here as well and it's pouring with rain!

The clip looked very over-exposed to me Serggio ..was that manual exposure cos with auto the image should never be so washed out, with no profile it really crushes the black level down to zero or even lower so if anything with no profile at least the blacks should have been very solid and I see none of that.

I checked out the clip in Sony Vegas Videoscopes and the whites are blown out over 120% ...if you drop the gamma curve down 50% to try and correct the levels the shimmering has virtually gone but the overall image is still over-exposed.

Try a clip again with correct exposure or run the camera in full auto ... In progressive mode you do need to keep the shutter a LOT lower either with ND filters or smaller iris otherwise the highlights will still blow out in such bright light!

Chris

Serggio Lamas · August 29th, 2014, 05:45 AM

Chris i make 1 more test with full camera auto have the some broblem,you are melbourne???have good friend photographer there,if you want to get to know,thornbury victoria australia

Chris Harding · August 29th, 2014, 07:51 AM

Hi Serggio

Nope, I'm in Perth 4000km to the West!!

I looked at some of my wedding footage when the shiny limos arrive and there is a tiny sparkle here and there. In 50P especially you do need to keep your shutter speed low and if the camera iris cannot close any more you need to put on an ND filter to reduce the light and shutter speed. At weddings I sometimes just don't have time to do that so I put up with the odd bit of aliasing ... When you shoot in auto make a note of the aperture and shutter speed in the sun, then move the car into the shade and test again and you will see the difference!!

At weddings I have no choice where the car stops so I usually shoot that with a manual lens so I can stop right down so my shutter is at a decent speed ...At 50P try to keep it at 100 or lower ..in 50i you can usually get away up to 1/400th but in super bright sun in auto you still might get a few sparkles.

If you want to shoot and expose manually then use zebras at 90% and make sure ONLY stuff like skies have the stripes on them ...if the car is full of stripes then you need to close down the iris!!

Chris

Serggio Lamas · August 29th, 2014, 10:06 AM

persist in believing that my camera has a problem in the lens or the sensor,by the end of next week we will ship in Sony

Noa Put · August 29th, 2014, 12:40 PM

That's aliasing but I have to say I have not seen it this bad before, I"d take the camera in for service.

Serggio Lamas · August 29th, 2014, 01:49 PM

I got my camera is just 2 months,has written 3 to 4 hours maximum,the recording was a close-up indoors and did not show the problem,my dealer saw the problem and send it in for repair in Sony at the end of next week

Jody Arnott · August 29th, 2014, 04:28 PM

This is the closest I could get to replicating Serggio's shot:

PP4, 1/50, f16, 0dB: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rgc7lv50ob...00002.MTS?dl=0
ND filter, PP4, 1/50, f5.6, 0dB: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6sndyr69fb...00003.MTS?dl=0

There are no signs of moire or aliasing that I can see, although there isn't anything in the shot that would really test that (except maybe the trees?).

I've never noticed before, but the ND filter seems to create a yellow tinge. I was using auto WB so maybe a custom WB would fix it.

Chris Harding · August 29th, 2014, 06:47 PM

Sounds like the camera has an issue...If my shutter is high and it's a very bright day I will get a tiny bit of aliasing on shiny chrome strips that the more vintage wedding limos tend to have, but nothing to cause any distress!

Yellow cast seems weird ..normally ND's give me a red headache and that's due to infra-red contamination.

Ok, so Serggio's camera is going to Sony for repair and hopefully all will be well when it comes back

Chris

Steve Bobilin · August 29th, 2014, 10:40 PM

One thing I noticed about Serggio's footage is that it was hand held or on his shoulder. Jody's seemed to be on a tripod which may minimize the moire.
Serggio, what framerate were you using? 24P? 50i? So maybe 4 variables combine to make bad moire:
1 frame rate
2 shutter speed
3 exposure
4 camera movement

Chris Harding · August 29th, 2014, 11:10 PM

Hi Steve

He was shooting rate in 50P as my original post was all about why profile PP3 causes posterization on the image that Pete Rush was experiencing. Yep you can see it's handheld when the zoom gets tight.

I don't think the over-exposure helped either so maybe the camera does have a fault?? With the clip exposure as long as Serggio had zebras on the whole frame would have been covered with zebra lines as it was blown out 120% according to my vectorscope.

At weddings sometimes you just don't have time to use a tripod but I can keep the camera almost as steady using my support rod.

We will see what happens after Sony have taken a look at it

Chris

Serggio Lamas · August 30th, 2014, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jody Arnott

This is the closest I could get to replicating Serggio's shot:

PP4, 1/50, f16, 0dB: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rgc7lv50ob...00002.MTS?dl=0
ND filter, PP4, 1/50, f5.6, 0dB: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6sndyr69fb...00003.MTS?dl=0

There are no signs of moire or aliasing that I can see, although there isn't anything in the shot that would really test that (except maybe the trees?).

I've never noticed before, but the ND filter seems to create a yellow tinge. I was using auto WB so maybe a custom WB would fix it.

Thanks Jody this picture I have not seen in any of my shots, definitely my camera has a problem thanks for your trouble, question these shots you are with the kit lens with full zoom OUT???

Jody Arnott · August 30th, 2014, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serggio Lamas

Thanks Jody this picture I have not seen in any of my shots, definitely my camera has a problem thanks for your trouble, question these shots you are with the kit lens with full zoom OUT???

You're welcome.

Yes kit lens. I started zoomed out at 18mm, then I zoomed in, not all the way to 200mm but close to it.

Serggio Lamas · August 30th, 2014, 03:15 AM

jody If you write at full automatic without profiles will be as good as your image?Also if you record at 50p the result will be the same?
Which model camera do you have NEX? i have EA50EH

Jody Arnott · August 30th, 2014, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serggio Lamas

jody If you write at full automatic without profiles will be as good as your image?Also if you record at 50p the result will be the same?
Which model camera do you have NEX? i have AE50EH

I'll have to try again tomorrow, as it's night here now.

I have the EA50UH, which is the North American version. But in terms of hardware, it is exactly the same as the EH.

August 29th, 2014, 05:12 AM	#46
Serggio Lamas Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Germany Posts: 163	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode thanks jody the shutter speed is 150 but and 50 shutter speed with f 16 have the problem

August 29th, 2014, 05:23 AM	#47
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode It's night time here as well and it's pouring with rain! The clip looked very over-exposed to me Serggio ..was that manual exposure cos with auto the image should never be so washed out, with no profile it really crushes the black level down to zero or even lower so if anything with no profile at least the blacks should have been very solid and I see none of that. I checked out the clip in Sony Vegas Videoscopes and the whites are blown out over 120% ...if you drop the gamma curve down 50% to try and correct the levels the shimmering has virtually gone but the overall image is still over-exposed. Try a clip again with correct exposure or run the camera in full auto ... In progressive mode you do need to keep the shutter a LOT lower either with ND filters or smaller iris otherwise the highlights will still blow out in such bright light! Chris

August 29th, 2014, 05:45 AM	#48
Serggio Lamas Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Germany Posts: 163	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode Chris i make 1 more test with full camera auto have the some broblem,you are melbourne???have good friend photographer there,if you want to get to know,thornbury victoria australia

August 29th, 2014, 07:51 AM	#49
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode Hi Serggio Nope, I'm in Perth 4000km to the West!! I looked at some of my wedding footage when the shiny limos arrive and there is a tiny sparkle here and there. In 50P especially you do need to keep your shutter speed low and if the camera iris cannot close any more you need to put on an ND filter to reduce the light and shutter speed. At weddings I sometimes just don't have time to do that so I put up with the odd bit of aliasing ... When you shoot in auto make a note of the aperture and shutter speed in the sun, then move the car into the shade and test again and you will see the difference!! At weddings I have no choice where the car stops so I usually shoot that with a manual lens so I can stop right down so my shutter is at a decent speed ...At 50P try to keep it at 100 or lower ..in 50i you can usually get away up to 1/400th but in super bright sun in auto you still might get a few sparkles. If you want to shoot and expose manually then use zebras at 90% and make sure ONLY stuff like skies have the stripes on them ...if the car is full of stripes then you need to close down the iris!! Chris

August 29th, 2014, 10:06 AM	#50
Serggio Lamas Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Germany Posts: 163	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode persist in believing that my camera has a problem in the lens or the sensor,by the end of next week we will ship in Sony

August 29th, 2014, 12:40 PM	#51
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode That's aliasing but I have to say I have not seen it this bad before, I"d take the camera in for service.

August 29th, 2014, 01:49 PM	#52
Serggio Lamas Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Germany Posts: 163	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode I got my camera is just 2 months,has written 3 to 4 hours maximum,the recording was a close-up indoors and did not show the problem,my dealer saw the problem and send it in for repair in Sony at the end of next week

August 29th, 2014, 04:28 PM	#53
Jody Arnott Major Player Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Hamilton, New Zealand Posts: 747	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode This is the closest I could get to replicating Serggio's shot: PP4, 1/50, f16, 0dB: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rgc7lv50ob...00002.MTS?dl=0 ND filter, PP4, 1/50, f5.6, 0dB: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6sndyr69fb...00003.MTS?dl=0 There are no signs of moire or aliasing that I can see, although there isn't anything in the shot that would really test that (except maybe the trees?). I've never noticed before, but the ND filter seems to create a yellow tinge. I was using auto WB so maybe a custom WB would fix it.

August 29th, 2014, 06:47 PM	#54
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode Sounds like the camera has an issue...If my shutter is high and it's a very bright day I will get a tiny bit of aliasing on shiny chrome strips that the more vintage wedding limos tend to have, but nothing to cause any distress! Yellow cast seems weird ..normally ND's give me a red headache and that's due to infra-red contamination. Ok, so Serggio's camera is going to Sony for repair and hopefully all will be well when it comes back Chris

August 29th, 2014, 10:40 PM	#55
Steve Bobilin Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 53	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode One thing I noticed about Serggio's footage is that it was hand held or on his shoulder. Jody's seemed to be on a tripod which may minimize the moire. Serggio, what framerate were you using? 24P? 50i? So maybe 4 variables combine to make bad moire: 1 frame rate 2 shutter speed 3 exposure 4 camera movement

August 29th, 2014, 11:10 PM	#56
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode Hi Steve He was shooting rate in 50P as my original post was all about why profile PP3 causes posterization on the image that Pete Rush was experiencing. Yep you can see it's handheld when the zoom gets tight. I don't think the over-exposure helped either so maybe the camera does have a fault?? With the clip exposure as long as Serggio had zebras on the whole frame would have been covered with zebra lines as it was blown out 120% according to my vectorscope. At weddings sometimes you just don't have time to use a tripod but I can keep the camera almost as steady using my support rod. We will see what happens after Sony have taken a look at it Chris

August 30th, 2014, 03:15 AM	#59
Serggio Lamas Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Germany Posts: 163	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode jody If you write at full automatic without profiles will be as good as your image?Also if you record at 50p the result will be the same? Which model camera do you have NEX? i have EA50EH Last edited by Serggio Lamas; August 31st, 2014 at 02:10 AM.