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Sony NEX-VG10 / VG20 / VG30 / VG900
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Old December 22nd, 2010, 11:28 AM   #1
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New creative ways to CRIPPLE a great camera!

Sony has done allot of neat things with the NEX VG10 and really given it some awesome innovative features. However, at the exact same time, Sony has crippled this poor thing in the most blatantly cheesy and tacky ways. It's so bad that we can only guess it's to protect sales of it's "upper" models.

I can only imagine the Sony engineers laughing their heads off in meetings about what features to shut off on the camera. (would have loved to be a fly in that room)

So,....I lets help Sony (and others) come up with brand new creative ways for Sony to cripple great future cameras. It's OK to be cheesy and absurd. In fact, they might actually do it!

Lemme start...

Future super35 NXCAM type.....

1.) Beautiful "pro" picture quality but with Small bug burned in corner that says; "Not a pro camera"
2.) You can have zebras,...but it's fixed at one predetermined setting by Sony. (lol..Sony has "lower" models that have zebras...I love the irony!...muhahaha!)
3.) Full AVCHD bitrate,...but with only MONO audio....ahhh yes,..peeeeeeeerfect!
4.) Place SD card socket UNDER the tripod mounting plate. (love this idea..keeps the NX5 crowd away)
5.) No hard buttons,...everything deeply menu and touch screen driven. (damn,..that's not new?)

This will make the Sony EX1 department really happy and it makes for BRILLIANT and strategic market segmentation. Right? The ENG buyers would HATE this camera, but everybody else below them would LOVE it!

I dunno guys, I'm sure we can help Sony (and others) out with more cool new protection ideas.

Remember,...their goal is to make the BEST camera they can without actually making it "too good". It's kinda like a really good race car driver, driving his butt off to get in front of the pack,...only to slam on the breaks hard just before he crosses the finish line. I love it!

Frustrated (but still loyal today) Sony fan.

CT
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 08:24 AM   #2
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Remember,...their goal is to make the BEST camera they can without actually making it "too good".
Absolutely agree, and with VG10 i think they've outdone themselves, first camcorder I've seen LCD goes 90 only.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 08:54 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Buba Kastorski View Post
Absolutely agree, and with VG10 i think they've outdone themselves, first camcorder I've seen LCD goes 90 only.
Are you familiar with the EX1?
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 10:09 AM   #4
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It's funny, I own an EX1R and I have never bothered to reverse the flip-out on it. Just checked mine,...dunno about the EX1 but they fixed it on the "R" cause it will flip over reversed (facing forward)

OH,...I got another crippling trick! Putting XDCAM EX codec on a really good super35mm sensor camera instead of the proper 4:2:2 codec. I almost fell over in my chair while reading that press announcement. (Especially when the competition is now using 4:2:2 on a "cheap" $6-7K 1/3rd sensor camera"

I mean jeesh Sony,...Canon broke the (price point) ice on the codec,...you might as well go along with them. You guys only look stubborn trying to ignore it and market against it with a 4:2:0 EX codec.

This is not a "comical" and "imaginary" idea that I'm saying here. It's actually going to show it's ugly head in 4 months.

But again,..this makes the entire "ENG camera department" side of Sony breathe a sigh of relief!

I can hear them now at Sony,...

Engineer 1: "My God,...have to seen that camera they are making down the hall?..."
Engineer 2: "Yeah,...I heard they are putting a damn 35mm in that thing!!..."
Engineer 1: "Yeah but they told me they got our back,...I heard they are only giving it our "EX" codec.."
Engineer 2: "Oh,..Whew!,...that was a close one.....HAHAHAHAAAAHAAAAA!!!"
Engineer 1: "...Hahhaaahahaaaa....hahaaaa.....!
Engineer 2: "...Hahaha,.....[pauses,...looks at coworker, ponders the situation and breaks out in laughter again]...

I love Sony and I understand the general concept,...but Jeez, they are just way too damn paranoid on this "market segmentation" thing.


CT
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 10:16 AM   #5
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Are you familiar with the EX1?
are you?
on my EX1 LCD rotates 180
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 10:26 AM   #6
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are you?
on my EX1 LCD rotates 180
I misunderstood your comment "LCD goes 90 only". The EX1 will certainly rotate more than 90 degrees, but will not bend back on itself further than 90 degrees unlike many other cameras.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 10:44 AM   #7
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The EX1 will certainly rotate more than 90 degrees, but will not bend back on itself further than 90 degrees unlike many other cameras.
with EX1\R\3 LCD folding design that would be absolutely useless.
And talking about VG10, inability to face LCD same direction as lens is a major design flaw.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 12:25 PM   #8
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"Flaw"?....nah, it was not an oversight. Sony engineers know exactly what they are doing in designing these things. Im sure it was intentional. Practically all Sony cams today can do it. (All the ones i have ever played with in stores)

CT
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 12:52 PM   #9
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I'm with Cliff: Sony engineers know exactly what they are doing in designing these things. It's not cameras they're making, it's money. The boardroom decisions are taken to make the model sell well at a certain price point, not to make it flawless in every department.

Look on it this way - Sony's decision making over that last 50 years has been pretty damn good - so good in fact that they can punch out fearlessly, introducing Elcassette, Mini Disc, Micro MV and Digital8 - all the while accepting the fact that they've been huge commercial failures.

All cameras are compromises, but competition assures us, the buyer, of huge variety and amazing quality at startlingly good prices. So no more talk of cripple, Cliff. There's always a better camera in the brochure - all you have to do is spot it.

tom.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 01:29 PM   #10
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I think brand loyalty actually helps fuel the "let them eat cake" thinking you complain about. Your dialog between the engineers very well might have had a line or two and some laughing about the Sony loyalists "buying whatever we give them. Bwaaaaaaaaah hahahahahaha".

The best thing you can do is go get a camera from someone whose made one with the features at the price point you will pay. Vote with your checkbook.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 01:37 PM   #11
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And so what of us that are NOT brand loyalists, who still choose Sony from time to time? Sometimes they just have a better product. I bought an EX1 because it was absolutely the best camera at the price point when it was introduced. I still think that's largely true, but it's time is nearly over. The market under $3k is SUPER competitive now with a lot of great cameras. Really, it's more a matter of selecting features than cameras from what I see.

Over 10K the game changes a bit.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 07:36 PM   #12
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Perhaps the role of the vg10 is to get something in the market that on the surface offers an alternative to all the other cameras. In this role it has been doing it's job. The fact even I call it a wonderful camcorder means the vg10 is not horrible.

The problem NOW is the GH2 is arriving. I'm not sure if the VG can continue it's role except amongst those who read nothing. Or, you insost they must have a camcorder.

Sony could very easily fight back with a CES firmware release. Or, it could alter it's price by selling it with the 16mm or 18200 or just the adaptor.

But, if CES passes with nothing, then Sony will get no coverage until the NEXCAM at NAB.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 08:31 PM   #13
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And so what of us that are NOT brand loyalists, who still choose Sony from time to time? Sometimes they just have a better product.
I agree. That's fine. In fact, not being a brand loyalist was my point. I was really speaking out of experience as I recently woke up and broke an 8 year boycott of Sony upgrading from the XH-A1 to an EX1R. I'm now of the opinion that the best thing we can do is reward the manufacturer who can deliver the features we want. For my A-Camera needs, Canon didn't and Sony did. For my B-Camera needs, the VG10 doesn't but I wish it had.

Last edited by Les Wilson; December 24th, 2010 at 04:44 AM.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 08:34 PM   #14
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I hear ya. Same reason I bought an EX1. Sony delivered Panasonic didn't. I had already bought 2 Panasonics. And a Canon. Sony just got it right with the EX1.
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Old December 24th, 2010, 04:31 AM   #15
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OH,...I got another crippling trick! Putting XDCAM EX codec on a really good super35mm sensor camera instead of the proper 4:2:2 codec. I almost fell over in my chair while reading that press announcement. (Especially when the competition is now using 4:2:2 on a "cheap" $6-7K 1/3rd sensor camera"
I expect the problem was that part of the market for the F3 uses HDCAM SR and other formats, so they decided to go for a proxy in camera and allowed the customer to decide if they wanted to use a Nanoflash or other more expensive systems. If they wanted a few grab B camera shots the on board codec could do the business as currently happens with EX1/3s and the DSLRs.

The NEX -VG10's main competitor is the AF100, which doesn't offer 4:2:2 either, so the time to complain would be if Sony don't offer a HD SDI.

A 1/3" sensor is going for a different market to a Super35 sensor camera. The Canon fits "the replace the Z1" camera to make HD productions for the BBC brief.

Last edited by Brian Drysdale; December 24th, 2010 at 10:04 AM.
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