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Sony NEX-VG10 / VG20 / VG30 / VG900
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Old November 5th, 2011, 07:32 PM   #46
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Re: VG2O Questions Answered- Footage coming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Mullen View Post
.

Do you see +/- beside each WB setting?
This is not there either.
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Old November 5th, 2011, 07:57 PM   #47
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Re: VG2O Questions Answered- Footage coming.

Thanks a lot for all the time you've put in Chris. I think we should just give up and accept that Sony deliberately crippled the VG20.

I love the NEX 5N and was hoping that the vg20 would give me the ability to manually control audio, and especially be able to tweak the image as the 5n does. I also hoped to not have the overheating issue. But once again Sony has let me down.

I've cancelled my order with B&H.
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Old November 5th, 2011, 08:55 PM   #48
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Re: VG2O Questions Answered- Footage coming.

Sounds more like they just decided to "simplify" the menu systems for a prosumer cam... and someone forgot to pass it along to the web site manager. I wouldn't expect a lot more from a phone CS rep... voice of experience...

Chris - DRO is strictly a STILLS feature, which typically uses multiple exposures to improve the latitude of a still shot - not terribly practical for "moving pictures". IF it's not in the stills menu, I'd be rather surprised, but suppose it's possible.


More and more the 5n looks like the "bargain", and it is quite strange that features in the 5n firmware didn't pass over to the VG20. The VG20 again looks like a very nice, but overpriced camera, sort of staying in the same path as the VG10. It'll sell to those who walk into a store and ask to buy "the best", but don't even know why they'd want the "extra" features... and it will sell to those who appreciate what it WILL do and want a video camera form factor with a big chip. So far video samples look like it's a pretty significant step up from "last years model".



I'm getting more used to shooting the "still camera form factor" with the HX100V and the A55/580. Toss a small folding flash bracket onto the left side and it's a pretty darn nice handheld setup. Too bad there's limited manual control, but at least there's exposure compensation...

The NEX7 design still looks to me like the ultimate in control, with my finger itching to find a lightly used NEX5n on the cheap in the meantime...
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Old November 5th, 2011, 11:27 PM   #49
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Re: VG2O Questions Answered- Footage coming.

I'd like to share a review I came across from Slashcam. They seem to have the same issues we have. Here's the Google translate link as I think it's in German.

Google Translate
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Old November 5th, 2011, 11:29 PM   #50
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Re: VG2O Questions Answered- Footage coming.

I remember when folks first read about the VG10 and expressed their shock at how much Sony crippled it. Here we are a year later -- and shocked once again.

And, last year Sony USA claimed the camera shot 60i. This year they market it with wrong information.

This is beginning to feel like Vista and Windows 7.
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Old November 5th, 2011, 11:57 PM   #51
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Re: VG2O Questions Answered- Footage coming.

I will be talking to their help staff Monday. Maybe there will something coming out of that.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 11:31 AM   #52
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Re: VG2O Questions Answered- Footage coming.

Thanks for blazing the trail for us on this, Chris. You really deserve a lot of thanks from the community both for the work you're doing to get to the bottom of these challenges, but also for sharing the results.

The disconnect between Sony Japan and overseas units (including Sony USA) has been a problem for Sony for a long time, and partly explains why the company's profits and stock price have been declining for some time.

Personally, I am still interested in the camera -- all I need is manual shutter, iris and gain -- I adjust color in post, not in camera.

But I certainly understand where folks in this thread are coming from -- buyers should be very careful when dealing with a company that puts out inaccurate information in its marketing materials.

Cheers,

Bill
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Last edited by Bill Bruner; November 6th, 2011 at 04:35 PM.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 11:46 AM   #53
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Re: VG2O Questions Answered- Footage coming.

Bill:

Last night I started looking a footage I shot during the day, on Friday, in an outdoor setting. Shot everything on cinematone setting. I am playing with it a bit to see how it grades. I too do my settings in post, usually shooting very flat. The cinama tone is not as flat as I would like.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 12:56 PM   #54
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Re: VG2O Questions Answered- Footage coming.

I have lots of questions!

How's the manual audio control? Is it buried deep in menus or can you get to it quickly? Can you control the channels individually? How's the audio quality when fed from external mics - does it have headroom or does it distort easily? I assume it's mic-level only and can't take line-in?

And how is the peaking and focus magnification in use - quick and easy or clumsy? Is the peaking like the 5N - can you choose your color and intensity?

And just confirming, this does have manual control over gain and shutter speed, correct? Can you assign either or both on external controls? Does it have zebras?

thanks!
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Old November 6th, 2011, 01:45 PM   #55
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Re: VG2O Questions Answered- Footage coming.

And I add my thanks also Chris for guinea-pigging this one and especially for sharing your experiences as they unfold. I check here regularly with much interest to read your latest comments.

The not-so-good news might be that Sony is guilty of false, or at least misleading, advertising while the good news, to be expected, is that the image quality right out of the cam is not too shabby. It is still on my wish list but having just purchased the NEX 5n and looking at a repair bill of $2100 NZ for a new lens on my EX1 placing an order won’t happen today.

Again, many thanks for your tireless contribution to the forum.

Cheers...
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Old November 6th, 2011, 08:00 PM   #56
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Re: VG2O Questions Answered- Footage coming.

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Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
Bill:The cinama tone is not as flat as I would like.
CinTone is to color grade IN camera so one doesn't need to grade in post. It's the classic Sony filmllok.

What is missing from the VG20:

A set of gamma curves -- one of which is flat for grading in post.

Black streatch.

Black compress.

Adjustable Knee including fixed.

Sharpness.

External mic attenuator

In short. most everything we got on the Z1. But, the Z1 was over $4000. So the FS100 is the new prosumer camera. The VG20 is simply an expensive consumer camcorder. More expensive than then the traditional Sony consumer HD camcorder because it uses a large chip. Many fewer large chips can be made per silicon disc, hence the cost increase. Add to that the cost of an interchangeable lens mount -- and one can see the VG20 as a reasonable camera.

The fact you can get the same image quality and most of the features for only $650 is what creates a choice.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 10:02 PM   #57
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Re: VG2O Questions Answered- Footage coming.

Now we know why Sony didn't give English speaking reviewers models to review.
If it had the same presets as the VG10 and 5n, I would have almost certainly bought this camera (esp given the total lack of new Canon products under $8K).

More than that, I would have bought the stock lens, the wide angle lens, and the wide angle lens fisheye/super wide angle add-on. And that's just to start. Assuming I liked the camera, I would likely have bought other NEX lenses and perhaps cameras - and extra batteries, etc.

This move by Sony seems even more unfriendly then what Canon's done - at least Canon's sales lit didn't lie.

And I'll echo everyone else's comments - thanks for keeping us updated, and def let us know how the Monday phone call goes.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 10:29 PM   #58
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Re: VG2O Questions Answered- Footage coming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Mullen View Post

In short. most everything we got on the Z1. But, the Z1 was over $4000. So the FS100 is the new prosumer camera. The VG20 is simply an expensive consumer camcorder. More expensive than then the traditional Sony consumer HD camcorder because it uses a large chip. Many fewer large chips can be made per silicon disc, hence the cost increase. Add to that the cost of an interchangeable lens mount -- and one can see the VG20 as a reasonable camera.

The fact you can get the same image quality and most of the features for only $650 is what creates a choice.
Steve. I was thinking this camera was the FX1 to the FS 100. I bought the FX1, and worked with the parameters there, I think successfully. That is all I wanted to be able to do here.

Thanks for the advice on Cinematone. After having worked with Cinematone last night in some footage shot in daylight, it is clear that it adds some things that give it the look, as you say.

My next test will be to shoot the standard setting and see if putting the footage into Firstlight from Cineform can give an iniitial flatter image to work with. Obviously, it could not widen the dynamic range, but my understanding is that Firstlight acts like change made in the camera.

This camera does have a backlighting adjustment, that you turn on or off. It is auto, though, and you have no capability to alter what it does.
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Old November 7th, 2011, 12:35 AM   #59
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Re: VG2O Questions Answered- Footage coming.

" I was thinking this camera was the FX1 to the FS 100. I bought the FX1, and worked with the parameters there, I think successfully. That is all I wanted to be able to do here."

Thank you! That has been my expectation which I never really understood before.

Sony is not providing a large chip version of the FX1 -- which is what I think we are all looking for.

Panasonic and Canon haven't done so either.

Looks like it is DSLR or an AF100/FS100.

Now here's a question -- is there a major difference between the 5 and the 5n?

Especially if one plans on buying 15-85 and an $50 adaptor for old fully manual SLR lenses

I'm beginning to think the answer is buy the old now cheap one!
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Old November 7th, 2011, 01:00 AM   #60
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Manual White Balance

Just to let you all know that the manual white balance seems to work pretty cleanly. So if you are used to warming up or cooling your shots a bit, I would first take a manual white balance, using the menu. Then once your white balance is set for the scene, use the separate white balance adjuster to slide it toward red or blue side, The manual white balance works like most Sony white balance systems. Point the camera at something white, and tap the screen at the sample button, and the camera changes. You do have to go into the menu to do that.
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