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Old November 18th, 2011, 11:52 AM   #16
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Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?

Chris...
Thanks for the link to the script writer. I hope you can find your sister's script...she did a good job on that and Im sure on others.

I admire the videos I've seen of yours and others using DSLRs.
I know you put a lot of work into the contests, but, like you said, it's both fun and you learn along the way.

Ive always shot video with large camcorders. Ive enjoyed shooting with my new Nex 5N, in that it's so small and easy to use over the large XHA1. Using it has lead me toward DSLR's rather than another camcorder. I want to shoot music vids and cinema, so the clips will be short. This new experience makes me undecided as to go with the VG20 or a DSLR (5D or Nex7)

Im wondering if "you" will miss the small size of your 5D when you start shooting the next contest video. From what Ive seen you got great shots and quality with the 5D...including the audio.

I can see why the VG20 would appeal to those shooting weddings and long events, but I have my Canon XHA1 for those.

still thinking,
Jeff
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Old November 18th, 2011, 01:10 PM   #17
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Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?

Jeff:

Not much difference in size or weight of the two. I will post a picture of the two next to each other.

In addition, with the 5D, for narrative films, I have to record and synch separate sound. With the VG20, I hook up a DSLR adapter, and I am feeding the camera. Other things that are good that the 5D doesnt't

Flip out screen to shoot from low and high angles.
Clean HDMI monitoring.
Monitoring does not shut down LCD.
Adjustable sound levels.
View Finder
excellent on camera mic.

I think the only place the 5D beats it is in the Picture Style category. You essentially only have two styles to choose with no ability to modify, while the Canon gives you unlimited.

Don't get me wrong. I have a great fondness for the 5D and will continue to use it. With the Picture style capability, it will be used in toughp shooting situations still But if I can make this VG20 work in my edit flow, it will likely become the workhorse.
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Old November 18th, 2011, 02:50 PM   #18
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Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?

You guys have experienced a lot more history of Sony cameras than me......

Since most feel the 5N capabilities would be easy to put back into the VG20, do you feel Sony will do that or not.

Im wondering if the "default" video of the VG20 is a match to default video on the Nex 5N, assuming the same WB of course. If so, that would still make a great shooting combo. Any "looks" could be done in post.

Jeff
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Old November 18th, 2011, 04:09 PM   #19
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Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hinson View Post
You guys have experienced a lot more history of Sony cameras than me......

Since most feel the 5N capabilities would be easy to put back into the VG20, do you feel Sony will do that or not.

Im wondering if the "default" video of the VG20 is a match to default video on the Nex 5N, assuming the same WB of course. If so, that would still make a great shooting combo. Any "looks" could be done in post.

Jeff
I don't think so, The VG20 shares the same chip and mount of the NEX, but the firmware, interface and features are clearly moved over to the Video side and have more in common with the NX70 and CX700.
The VG20 is positioned at the top of the Handycam family, next step up would be the NX70 which is the entry pro NEXCAM and that does not have any sharpness, colour or contrast control as well.
What muddles the waters is that Sony used the same body for both the 10 and 20, but they really are quite different under the hood, the 10 works like a NEX5 and the 20 has the heart of a handycam.
I think if Sony had not had the earthquake, the Vg20 would have had a style makeover as well.

As for matching the 5N for colour the Vg20 has the same Sony 'China blue' sky, but perhaps a bit more saturated, The 5n's Vivid or landscape mode is very similar
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Old November 19th, 2011, 02:40 AM   #20
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Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?

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Originally Posted by Jeff Hinson View Post
Chris...
Thanks for the link to the script writer. I hope you can find your sister's script...she did a good job on that and Im sure on others.

Jeff
Attached is PDF of that script you wanted to see.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Dead of Winter II.pdf (8.7 KB, 502 views)
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Old November 19th, 2011, 03:23 AM   #21
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Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?

Thanks so much Chris...thank Ellen for me.

I put the script on one side of my laptop screen and the movie on the other, interesting to watch the movie and read the script as it played.
That 5D looked good. Just hope the VG20 can do the same. I think my 5N could match the clips..will experiment more with it.

Now if I can just get the grand kids off the video games. haha

Jeff
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Old November 19th, 2011, 03:45 AM   #22
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Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?

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Originally Posted by Paul Rickford View Post
I don't think so, The VG20 shares the same chip and mount of the NEX, but the firmware, interface and features are clearly moved over to the Video side and have more in common with the NX70 and CX700.
The VG20 is positioned at the top of the Handycam family, next step up would be the NX70 which is the entry pro NEXCAM and that does not have any sharpness, colour or contrast control as well.
What muddles the waters is that Sony used the same body for both the 10 and 20, but they really are quite different under the hood, the 10 works like a NEX5 and the 20 has the heart of a handycam.
I think if Sony had not had the earthquake, the Vg20 would have had a style makeover as well.

As for matching the 5N for colour the Vg20 has the same Sony 'China blue' sky, but perhaps a bit more saturated, The 5n's Vivid or landscape mode is very similar
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Maybe then, the VG10 is a better match for the NEX 5N than the VG20??

BTW...there is still no stock of VG20s(with lens) at B&H, but Sony is selling direct. Wonder what's up with that? Maybe B&H is holding off ordering stock due to the chatter?

jeff
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Old November 19th, 2011, 12:58 PM   #23
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Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?

Jeff, the VG10 is an older sensor, with lower pixel count... I'd almost guarantee it would be a WORSE choice with the 5n, even if the scene presets were similar...
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Old November 19th, 2011, 03:21 PM   #24
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Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?

To Dave..
Your are probably right on Dave...

My excitement that the VG20 and Nex 5N would be a perfect match is over. I would still have to CC one or the other most likely...even shooting "default" with both.

For now, I will use the 5N-XHA1 combo and live with it. Who knows what will happen in the market over the next year.

Im tired and need a Bud Light,

Adios,
Jeff
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Old November 20th, 2011, 01:44 PM   #25
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Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?

I certainly appreciate all of the testing and information that Chris has provided - but it is interesting that there have been several hands-on English language reviews/previews of the NEX7 (a camera that is not shipping yet), and zero English language reviews/previews of the NEX-VG20, a camera that has been shipping for several weeks!

A few examples of what's out there on the NEX7, which Sony very helpfully provided to widely-read sites prior to the ship date:

DC Resource review: Sony Alpha NEX-7 Review | Digital Camera Resource Page
The Camera Store (Canada) video hands-on field test: https://www.thecamerastore.com/blog/...nds-field-test
Luminous Landscape first impressions report: Sony NEX-7 First Impressions

I will make my purchase decision (GH3, VG20 or NEX7) in a few months, so it's not a crisis -- but Sony's seeming disinterest in marketing this camera is frustrating and hard to figure.

Bill
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Last edited by Bill Bruner; November 21st, 2011 at 01:31 PM.
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Old November 20th, 2011, 01:52 PM   #26
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Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?

Agreed...."lack of interest"...or maybe re-considering firmware, with all the negative chatter going on here and other places.

Im "loving" my Nex 5N...hard to believe the Nex 7 could be better.
BTW...I found this is an old house we were looking at

Pentax-A 50mm F1.2 Reviews - A Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

Made my day. ha

Jeff
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Old November 20th, 2011, 03:30 PM   #27
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Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?

It's simple really, Sony has limited sensor production capabilities, the NEX5N is a HUGE hit, as the A77/NEX7 look to be... the market for photography is a LOT bigger, and they know it. Where do you put your production and promotion?

The interesting question is where will Sony go with the handycam/videocamera lines now? WIth some pretty high quality from their P&S line this year (60p no less), and the crossover from the NEX line, the good old plain vanilla video camera is starting to look a little out of place for all but event shooters...

Perhaps that's a bit extreme, but you have to sell a certain volume to make ROI ends meet, and I have to wonder how much cannibalizing is taking place when EVERY camera shoots video? There's already been talk of how the smart phone, with 8-10MPixel cameras and HD video, is killing the market for cameras... add to that the crossover feature cameras, and most people really won't see the need to buy a video camera AT ALL...

How many "soccer moms and dads" have or will buy a NEX5/5n - heck I saw them on the shelf at TARGET! How many of those same people will buy a VG10 or 20, or even know it exists...?

The NEX/E mount serves as an opening door for some interesting new niche cameras like the VG series, but it's a VERY limited market, one with rather high expectations.

The best Sony can do is to listen to feedback, and "tick the boxes" for the limited market that might buy this camera. IMO, the VG10 largely failed, and it seems now somehow they forgot to leave a lot of capabilities from the NEX 5N in the VG20...

And as a practical matter, IF Sony produced what many have called the "NEX6", a theoretical (and no indication Sony will produce this beast) combo of the 16Mpixel chip from the 5N with the body of the NEX7... at around the $1K price point (easily doable)... I know I'd buy 2 at least, without even a second thought, and would be fine using them for almost any shoot!
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Old November 21st, 2011, 01:45 AM   #28
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Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?

Dave,
Well said, and I agree.
"on with the show",

Jeff
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Old November 21st, 2011, 08:25 AM   #29
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Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst View Post
It's simple really, Sony has limited sensor production capabilities, the NEX5N is a HUGE hit, as the A77/NEX7 look to be... the market for photography is a LOT bigger, and they know it. Where do you put your production and promotion?
Dave - I might agree with you, but there were English language hands-on previews of the NEX-FS100 months before it shipped:

Den Lennie's video blog: NEX FS 100 Video Blog - Sony NEX-FS100 Super 35mm User Group on Vimeo
Demo footage from Doug Jensen at Vortex Media with pre-production FS100: Vortex Media's Sony NEX-FS100 Demo Footage - Sony NEX-FS100 Super 35mm User Group on Vimeo
Sony senior product manager walks viewers through the FS100: Sony FS100 with Juan Martinez from Sony - Sony NEX-FS100 Super 35mm User Group on Vimeo

In my view, the VG20 fumble is marketing incompetence in the consumer camcorder division, not a calculated corporate strategic decision.

As in most of human affairs, Hanlon's Razor probably applies: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." ;-)

Bill
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 04:57 AM   #30
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Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?

In my view, the VG20 fumble is marketing incompetence in the consumer camcorder division, not a calculated corporate strategic decision.

As in most of human affairs, Hanlon's Razor probably applies: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." ;-)

Perhaps neither.

Whenever there is a shortage of parts one introduces a product in the smallest market first.

PS: Juan spent almost a year in Japan working the FS100.
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