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Old December 5th, 2011, 10:22 AM   #16
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Re: First Narrative Shoot with the VG20

Do you feel the GH 2 with the hack is as good
As the VG 20 or Canon 5D?

Jeff
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Old December 5th, 2011, 10:50 AM   #17
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Re: First Narrative Shoot with the VG20

What am I missing here ?

It seems the GH2 with hack, is the answer for those of us that would like to shoot with a DSLR rather than a large camcorder.

The GH2, hacked, has.....
140mins record time (still dont see why other DSLRs dont)
60p,60i,30p.24p ??
interchangeable lenses
large sensor...and on and on.
A good price !

So what's the down side??

jeff
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Old December 5th, 2011, 11:56 AM   #18
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Re: First Narrative Shoot with the VG20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Bruner View Post
Dave - I don't mean to answer for Chris, but I will be doing a side-by-side of the VG20 and my unhacked GH2 this weekend. I will post the results as soon as I'm done with the edit.

Bill
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Bill:

So how did it go with the two camera comparison ? I had hoped the VG20 would put us behind this hacking requirement, but I find myself looking for the original hacker Trammel Hudson on the VG20.....I worked heavily with the group on the original 5D hack and then in early days of T2i hack.

As far as all the DSLRs, the sound issues have been my major problem always. I had resorted to dual system. With the film I shot last week, It was a XLR adapter, a boom pole and NTG3 mic, a field mixer, and the camera. no synching is making the edit so much easier so far. I think sound will record just fine, but I don't think I hit it exactly right, and experience so his in situations where I should have paid more attention. It was so nice to monitor, though there is certainly a bit of a delay on the earphone monitor. I found that when I had phones on, and was giving direction, I would unconciously slow my speech to try to let the camera catch up.....a bit irritating.
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Old December 5th, 2011, 12:00 PM   #19
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Re: First Narrative Shoot with the VG20

I don't pooh-pooh any of this. l was heavily involved in initial hacking of the 5D, it was a necessity then.

I never got to the GH2 because I was heavily invested in the EOS line, and the level of quaility I was getting for the narrative films I made was more than adequate. If I was shooting event stuff, I would definitely have considered. I still feel that getting back to the camcorder form factor is the answer, but many will disagree.
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Old December 5th, 2011, 03:09 PM   #20
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Re: First Narrative Shoot with the VG20

GH2 has been great for me too. But like you Chris I'd prefer not to use dual system (which I'm doing now). I also like the idea of the camcorder form factor.

Chris - what's the OIS like on the VG20 stock zoom? How's it handheld (balance, etc)?

Looking forward to the comparison!
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Old December 5th, 2011, 03:16 PM   #21
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Re: First Narrative Shoot with the VG20

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Originally Posted by Jeff Hinson View Post
What am I missing here ?
So what's the down side??

jeff

Well, there's a couple:

1 - It's a hack. I have a hacked T2i, and while it's decently reliable, it does seem to want to go on the fritz just when I really need it not too. Hacks are never going to be as reliable as actual, legit, firmware. Also, you have to load the firmware onto the memory card - which is always a wee bit stressful and time consuming.

2. It's a DSLR. Meaning, no built-in NDs, no XLRs, some sort of Franken-rig to make it usable as a full time video camera. In short, all the negatives (and positives) of using a tiny, non video dedicated, camera.

3. It's a micro 4/3s sensor. Some people (like Barry Green) will swear up and down that the difference between a 4/3's sized sensor and a S35 sensor is small. But lot's o people feel different. The difference between APS-C Canon sized sensor and the 4/3's is on the magnitude of 25%. Sony's S35 version is a bit larger then Canon's, so the difference is even greater. If you compare it to the Mark II's full size sensor, then a micro 4/3s sensor looks truly small.

Bottom line is that if you're already heavily invested in expensive glass, you'll prolly wince when your $2,000 Canon EF 14mm f/2.8L lens becomes a 28mm on the Panasonic GH2. In other words, double whatever the focal length your lenses are when you strap them on a Panasonic. Seeing how good, fast, wide angle lenses are particularly expensive, this turns off many a potential buyer.

Still an interesting option for sure.
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Old December 5th, 2011, 05:35 PM   #22
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Re: First Narrative Shoot with the VG20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
Bill:
It was so nice to monitor, though there is certainly a bit of a delay on the earphone monitor. I found that when I had phones on, and was giving direction, I would unconciously slow my speech to try to let the camera catch up.....a bit irritating.
__________________________________________

Chris,
There should not be a delay if you are monitoring the cam audio out bus. I assume you are monitoring out of your mixer that has a compressor or limiter in the loop...that's causing the delay most likely.

Jeff
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Old December 5th, 2011, 07:17 PM   #23
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Re: First Narrative Shoot with the VG20

Nope. Right of the camera headphone jack. I normally would have no issue if listening on the mixer. ( I have SignVideo ENG44. One to the issues is there is an automatic limiter in this camera. Don't seem to be able to turn it off. I think I mentioned it before, but this appears to the first problem with it.
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Old December 5th, 2011, 08:03 PM   #24
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Re: First Narrative Shoot with the VG20

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Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
Bill:

So how did it go with the two camera comparison ?...
Sorry, Chris. I'm still shooting it. Picked the camera up late Saturday and did some still JPEG comparison shots at the beach just before sunset. On Sunday, I shot some studio stuff and exteriors. Tonight after work, I'll do some low light interiors. It will take a couple of days for the edit, but my immediate impression is that these are both great cameras.

The GH2 -- even without the hack -- beats the VG20 on moire and image quality. The GH2 also has multiple picture profiles and the ability to adjust color and sharpness, which the VG20 does not. The 2.6x Extended Tele Converter function on the GH2 is also a real advantage for the Panasonic.

But the VG20 has real advantages too. The headphone jack and high quality in-camera audio are big deals for me. With the GH2, if I want decent sound, I have to go dual system, with all of the challenges that poses during shooting and in post. I also like the VG20's performance in low light (a lot) and (this is a nitpick) I like the fact that, with the VG20, you don't have to go into the menu and switch settings to use a non-Sony lens. With the GH2, I have to drill down in the menu and switch a setting every time I change from a Panasonic m4/3 system lens to one of my old Canon or Nikon manual lenses.

As an old film guy, I also like the camcorder form factor.

I'm going to try to write a quick preview over on my blog tonight, even before I post the video, so you should be able to take a look at it tomorrow.

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

EDIT: Here is my blog post - Hands-on with the Sony NEX-VG20: http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogsp...t-english.html

Last edited by Bill Bruner; December 6th, 2011 at 02:04 PM.
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Old December 6th, 2011, 05:40 PM   #25
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Re: First Narrative Shoot with the VG20

Bill,

I've got my finger on the ORDER button for the GH2, awaiting your final comments on the GH2 vs VG20.

Please let me know which of the two you would chose to shoot video.

All advice welcomed.

Have fun, and thanks.

Jeff
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Old January 1st, 2012, 04:50 AM   #26
 
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Re: First Narrative Shoot with the VG20

Is this side by side video available to see please?
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Old January 1st, 2012, 09:36 AM   #27
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Re: First Narrative Shoot with the VG20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Bruner View Post
With the GH2, if I want decent sound, I have to go dual system,
Not if you use the very nice pana unidirectional mic.
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Old January 1st, 2012, 10:59 AM   #28
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Re: First Narrative Shoot with the VG20

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Originally Posted by Jalan Salur View Post
Is this side by side video available to see please?
Sorry, Jalan. I didn't post the link here because Jeff H. no longer needed the help with his decision - he bought a GH2. Didn't realize that others were waiting for it too. Here it is: Hybrid Camera Revolution: Sony NEX-VG20 and Panasonic DMC-GH2: Side-by-side Comparison

Hope you find it useful.

Bill
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Old January 1st, 2012, 11:08 AM   #29
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Re: First Narrative Shoot with the VG20

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Originally Posted by Steve Mullen View Post
Not if you use the very nice pana unidirectional mic.
Steve - I use a http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GE403I (arguably better than the http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002EGDFD2) - and even with the audio level set on "low", the GH2's AGC produces a hissing noise floor in quiet rooms. I love my GH2, but it cannot match the sound quality of a 24 bit 96kHz recorder with full manual gain control.

Cheers & Happy New Year,

Bill
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Old January 1st, 2012, 12:15 PM   #30
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Re: First Narrative Shoot with the VG20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Bruner View Post
Sorry, Jalan. I didn't post the link here because Jeff H. no longer needed the help with his decision - he bought a GH2. Didn't realize that others were waiting for it too. Here it is: Hybrid Camera Revolution: Sony NEX-VG20 and Panasonic DMC-GH2: Side-by-side Comparison

Hope you find it useful.

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution
_________________________________________________________________________________
Hey Bill....
Great job Bill..thanks a million for taking time to help us all out.

I decided to get out of the Sony line entirely. I sold my Nex5N, purchased a GH2 plus a Canon XA10. I found I needed a real camcorder with power zoom more than the ability to change lenses. I feel you've proved the VG20 and GH2 are both good products...and one must just go with fits his shooting style and experience level. Happy 2012 and thanks again for your hard work....JEFF HINSON
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