NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Hello DVInfo, this is my first post, nice to meet you all.

I came to NEX e-mount system 1.5 years ago, beginning with NEX5 (that time choosing between nex5 or VG10, and due to similarity - I gone for NEX5 that time). And it's great little camera, and start experimenting with Nikon lenses too. Very interesting and now I upgrade to Sony NEX-VG20, and I have made:

Of course, after direct compare, NEX-VG20 has a better performance than the NEX5, new sensor, new avchd 2.0 codec, ability to record in 50i (i'm in PAL area) or 50p!

I'm thinking of 'replacing' my NEX5, keep small and light, especially for Glidecam work - so the system remains light.
But I must say, the trouble I'm thinking for this new cameras, is 'Overheat Issue' I read, and the worse before, is NEX5n clicking issues too.

Two different view of NEX5N:
"yes overheating is definitely an issue. I've not had it happen outdoors but inside it happens a lot and the camera just shuts itself off (very inconvenient!). I've not tried the OLED Viewfinder so perhaps that would reduce the problem, I'd not try it in a hot country though!"

while by other user, (Thread : http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-avc...-5n-beach.html)
"Very bright sun, but no problem with evf or any overexposure that afflicts most cameras and camcorders in this situation. NO OVERHEATING (76 degrees)."


So, does the newer NEX5N has fixed overheat issue? or is it a random problem? Different unit = different problem?
Now, how about NEX7. Anyone already have? and how it performs? is NEX7 have this overheat issue or free from it?


Thanks and Regards,

Setiawan
Bandung, Indonesia

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Hi Setiawan,

Welcome to DVInfo. Very nice video of the Cap Go Meh Cultural Festival. The night scenes are impressive. I am watching the video on a 42" screen and I see no noise in the dark areas. I have shot with the VG20, and it is a terrific camera, especially in low light, despite the lack of manual color control.

Regarding 5N overheating, some people report problems, some do not.

Here is a link to the heatsinks recommended in this thread at Amazon US - if you buy this camera and have overheating problems, hopefully you can find something similar in Indonesia:



On the NEX-7, I have not seen any reports of overheating - but there are not yet that many cameras in the hands of users, so you may want to wait until there are more in the field before making a buying decision.

Or perhaps just buy another VG20 body ;-)

Hope this is helpful,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Hello Bill, Thanks for the video comments..

Also very helpful info about those Heatsinks! - well, logically seems can help, at least make the shooting going longer, and from the thread, other users who did the same finally fix the trouble too.

At least I can be more less-worry if I'm ready to purchase NEX5n.

Regards,
Setiawan

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Hi guys thought i would share my NEX-7 experiences with you as i just sold it and im considering the vg20 as a replacement. The reason is because it overheats just like the nex-5n that i previously owned. The NEX-7 can reach the 30min clip mark but it will almost always display the overheating warning around the 5-10min mark. After completing a 30min clip, once u start recording again it shuts off after 2min.

If overheating is a concern at all DO NOT BUY THE NEX-7 or the 5n. If reliable video recording is important to you (weddings,interviews,events,kids soccer game) stick with the vg20.

the NEX-7 is a great lil camera but im assuming that one of its greatest assests (small size) is also one of its weaknesses due to this overheating issue sony has with all the NEX cameras asside from the pro lines.

This and this reason alone is making me consider the vg20 because there is absolutely no overheating problems and we still maintain the E mount interchangable lense system that ive already invested in.

The only thing im concerned about is the lack of control over the sharpness and contrast settings and also no picture profiles or the advertised consumer NEX creative styles found in the 5n and 7.

For now im waiting another 2 weeks till NAB 12' to find out if sony has any surprises. I doubt it would be a vg30 but im hearing rumors of an F3 replacement for the C3

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Depending on the lens you use I find that the VG20 has a very good balance meaning it is close to my Canon 60d neutral style. I was concerned about this but I bought it at B H photo and if I did not like it i would return it. Well, I still have it and have done 4 professional jobs with it and doing a peice for Intel next week with it. I did a tutorial on my web site how easy it is to get the footage a little flatter using Firstlight.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Aron can you post a link to your site where you describe how to get a flatter image from the VG20?

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

I have the 7, I live in Florida and it varies for me. I rarely shoot more than a few minutes non stop, even though I have a slew of 16gb cards, 1080/60p still fills the card pretty quickly. But I did some testing after seeing concerns on other forums, sometimes the camera goes 9 - 10 minutes before shutting down from overheating, sometimes it reaches the 29:30 recording limit and then stops. Every time it overheated I just switched the camera off, then back on immediately and it started recording again. The shortest stretch I had was 9 minutes and change, most of the time it goes past 20 minutes - but again my style is very run and gun so I'm constantly doing a start/stop dance while moving around to get different shots. Unlike the previous Chris' post, I always got at least 9 minutes and usually a lot longer.

If I were regularly shooting something that lasted longer than the 29 minute recording limit, I wouldn't use a hybrid camera that has the limit, but that's not an issue for me. The 7, like most small cameras, is pretty dense inside, there's little room for added cooling and the 7's processor is certainly doing a lot of work when recording. I always tilt the LCD out to try and get one source of heat away from the body. OSS lenses seem to create more heat as well. I had better results with my adapted Rokkors. Here's what the 7 looks like under its skin...

Naked Sony Nex-7!! I Opened it up so the Inside of the Nex-7 is Revealed!! | SonyAlphaLab.com

My 5d2 and a friends 7d also had occasional overheating issues, many SLR/mirrorless cameras report overheating while shooting video. My GH2 doesn't seem to have that problem, I've seen posts alluding to extra cooling on its processor and given what that chip must be doing recording 100mb+ with the hack, there's definitely more cooling internally than the Nex, but the GH2 is a bit larger than the 7.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Hey Chris first to be clear this flattening im talking about is in post not in camera. So you will not benefit of getting more dynamic range from the camera but what you do get is a video clip with less contrast for color grading. All you do is in Firstlight just raise the mids if the video needs it. The cool thing is Firstligh changes the meta data of the video. But here is the link to the tutorial.
# 6 TFX tv Cleaning Up Video (Part One)

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

It is still stunning to me that Sony is selling cameras with these known overheating challenges - that Canon sells "video capable" cameras with no autofocus, and that Canon and Nikon and Sony all sell "video capable" cameras that shut off after 30 minutes of recording.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

To be "fair", they are selling STILL cameras with video capabilities, able to handle most short clips that people might shoot. It's an "extra" function, and those of us who are trying to shoehorn these still cameras into long form work are not what the manufacturer expected...

The engineers have done what they can within the marketing challenges of "big sensor, small camera" - there's only so many ways to dissipate heat from a large chip... and for the "average" consumer, they can and will spend a little extra to get a cool new still camera... "and it does HD video too?" - for most it will suffice for personal use!

There's a disconnect here in that "pros" pcik up these cams and see what they can do with them for the price, and well... there's a reason they call it the bleeding edge, and to me it's pretty neat what you CAN get for the minimal outlay...

I'm sure that old EU added taxation is an issue somewhere in there too.

But in the end, I think that most videographers that do long form or free run clips will end up back with a VIDEO camera (perhaps the NEX VG series...), at least for SOME of their work. I'm happy that SONY at least decided to change up the design (NEX and SLT) to make for a reasonably effective "video" function with autofocus.

As so many "rigs" show, the SLR/still camera is not exactly the best design for shooting video (although I find it fairly comfortable, guess I'm weird). But I do think the "dedicated" video camera, at least in the consumer space is dead or dying rapidly - for most consumers (myself included when "casual shooting") can get pretty good video with even a fairly cheap P&S camera (or a smart phone!), and now that pretty much every still camera (and did I mention phones?!) comes with a video function... the camcorder/handycams days are I suspect numbered.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

I agree, these are not meant to be pro video cameras - but with pro still and video quality in such a small/affordable package, its tough to buy a dedicated video camera. I would buy a VG20 without blinking if it had just ONE XLR input, just one. Because I have to run parallel audio I just can't get past spending $500 more for the body over my Nex7, or $1000 more than a 5n for the same sensor. If I could get one closer to $1000 that would be another story. Till then I'll run with a GH2 and Nex7. The GH2 doesn't have the overheat issues, just less DR and its a little worse in low light. Every camera is a compromise.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Whats wrong with using a mini to XLR adapter.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Nothing, except that there's no phantom power for a standard mic from these little 3.5mm mic jacks - and battery powered XLR mics are more expensive.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Thanks Bill for your response. I use a 3.5 to XLR adapter with my Azden shotgun mic which don't need phantom power works great but I see your point.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

I just tried the 5n, having owned a VG20 since November 1, 2011, the day it was released. I have to say that the more I use the VG20, the more I like it. I was one of the primary complainers about the lack of saturation, contrast and sharpness controls, as was advertised. But the images out of the camera are just great, and it is clear why Sony left the additional features out. The VG20 would have been a clear competitor with their FS100 which is priced twice as much.

When I had the 5n for a couple of days, I did not have an overheat issue, but I was mainly test, on warm days, but just shooting short clips. I sent it back, despite the adjustment capabilities. I was thinking of converting it to my main cinema camera, but it just seemed like too much of a step backwards in usability.

Even with the baked in settings, the VG20 exhibits a good degree of range in post grading, if you develop a work flow. It appears to me that Sony did not set sharpness, contrast or saturation real high on the camera, so there is room for adjustment.

I simple powered Juice Link, or unpowered XLR adapter work well with the camera in term of feeding sound from professional mics to the camera.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

AS to overheating issue, it seems the 5n silver body would reflect heat, and the black body would absorb heat in shooting in sun. Since most buyers seem to prefer black, I wonder if that is an issue.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

I'm still really intrigued by the VG20, with the rest of the Nex lineup getting a refresh I wonder if there's a VG30 in the pipeline or if the VG lineup will just fade into the sunset. I saw what you posted in the other threads and it looks like there's a lot more DR in the VG standard settings that can be preserved in post compared to Nex.

After buying the FS100, I sold the GH2 (too many cameras) and the Nex7 (overheating got considerably worse, rendering the camera completely unusable) and replaced them with a dirt-cheap, barely used Nex5n body and a Olympus EM5 (silly impulse buy, but IBIS makes it a great walkaround camera). The 5n still overheats, but not nearly as bad as the 7 so far, and its a later model that doesn't have the clicking issue. But I still long for a better video form factor after going back to a real video camera with the FS.

My camera merry-go-round might spin again with something like the A57 as it appears that Steadyshot will work with legacy glass, 1080/60p and the same awesome sensor as the 5n/VG20 and its crazy cheap.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Possible theory on overheating.

I was shooting an interview recently and the NEX 7 constantly overheated -- like every 3-5 minutes it would completely shut down. Keep in mind this was inside an air conditioned building. However, the camera was mounted to a Stroboframe, which meant the camera's underside was snug against a large piece of metal and a small amount of rubber. The camera had a Konica 50mm 1.8 attached with an adaptor.

Just now, in my home office where it's not air conditioned and probably around 85-degrees+ (ugh) I just rolled the camera for the full ~30 mins and it didn't overheat at all - not even a warning. Same Konica lens attached.

Obviously, the ambient temperature can be ruled out, since the much (much, much) warmer room was not an issue. Also, the fact that it was a non-OSS lens can also be ruled out, since both times I was using an old-school piece of glass. Also, in the first condition the LCD was propped open slightly, and in my test today in the hot office I kept the back LCD closed and active the whole time (to mimic a "worse case scenario" based on reports of others). The same SanDisk Class 10 SDHC card was used both times.

The only difference working against the camera when it was overheating was that it was mounted flush with the stroboframe, and when it didn't overheat it was "loose" - picked up, or sitting on a table for the duration. Since I can clearly feel the hottest spot on the underside of the camera is right under the lens, just next to the mounting screw, my theory is that the overheating condition is caused by adding a tight-fitting rubber and metal mount which acts as an insulator and bumps the camera's otherwise razor-thin heat limits to shutdown territory.

My question for everyone else is if the same conditions are possibly leading to your overheating? Is the camera loose or mounted when you've experienced an overheat leading to shutdown? Is your mount covering the full underside, or are you just attaching a small plate?

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

I shut off the camera for 5 minutes, mounted a Manfrotto plate to the base, and started the test again. This time the camera gave an overheating warning in just 2 minutes.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Letting the camera sit, yet again, for 5-minutes (off) I turned it back on and started rolling it "loose". This time it overheated after 5 minutes. Which is slightly better than with the plate mounted - however, I'm guessing it may need more than a 5 minute cooldown for the test to be accurate.

Still interested to hear other's results.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

If that theory pans out, the next logical thing would be a heat sink on the BOTTOM of the camera... with a tripod adapter?

Don't have a NEX (SLT-A65/57 user), but have dealt with the heat issues in earlier SLT's, so far not seeing any with the new models, despite the warnings in the manuals. Will have to be more observant as to where the "hot spots" are, if any - spreading and dissipating heat in electronics can be tricky business, and your thoughts that attaching a plastic or metal plate with an insulator (rubber or cork "anti-twist" surface) are adding to the problem makes sense.

Perhaps replicate the original overheat by attaching to the stroboframe? Then after a cooldown, try it without... that should validate the theory?

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

My 7 was very unpredictable, when I first got it - I could go handheld, set it on a table or tripod and get 15-20 minutes out of it one day before shutting down, then on another it would crap out in 3 or 4 minutes in the house with A/C on. I shot a triathlon, in sunny/hot Florida, outside for almost 4 hours - with clips anywhere from about 30 seconds to 8 or 9 minutes and it only shut down a couple times IIRC. Most of the time it was on the Manfrotto video monopod which uses a standard tripod plate. The triathlon was my first shoot with the 7, it got progressively worse over the course of the two months I owned it - to the point where I was never getting more than a few minutes before it would shut down, on the desk or on a tripod.

Since selling the 7 and getting a 5n body on the cheap, its been better. But the Nex is always my B cam because I'm a little weary of relying on it for critical footage. I've noticed no overheating issues when I use the LAEA1 adapter with an Alpha lens, but the adapter has a tripod collar so the bottom of the 5n doesn't touch the monopod at all and when I hold it - I'm cradling the adapter. The added airspace seems to make a huge difference, at the expense of having a giant lens on the camera. Same seems to apply with the MD/Nex adapter and Rokkors. I sold all my E-mount glass so I can't say how it performs with native lenses.

I always shoot with the LCD tilted out and shut the camera down when not using it. YMMV...

cheers

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Anyone tried the trick where you power down, and remove and then replace the battery?....read somewhere that that will perform a reset function for the temp. monitor....

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

I started a thread on the official Sony Support Forums. I would suggest others add to my thread in the hope that the issue gets escalated.

https://forum.sel.sony.com/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=14833

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

I am guessing that Sony has accepted a certain amount of latitude in its chip production specifications which result in wider variance of heat production in the camera, in order to keep the price down. Since the camera is primarily considered a still camera, and most still users wouldn't have an issue, Sony is willing to accept a certain amount of complaints from those using it primarily as a video camera. I predict you will likely get no response from Sony-- a lot like my thread started on the VG20 advertizing by Sony that the camera had scene profiles when it had nothing on board like that. They just ignored it, though I think they offered me $ 150.00 through their support/complaint program.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Given the erratic nature of the "overheating" I'm guessing that the issue is not caused by any actual thermal issues and is, instead, an overly-sensitive restriction placed on the camera that - in the real world - is a huge inconvenience. I'm hoping they will loosen this restriction with a future reflash. I've read at least one account of someone still getting overheating shutdowns with the camera placed *in a freezer*.

There is no way this imaging sensor is getting as hot as even the common processor. Granted, I do not know the standard operational perimeters for the chip, but there is a lot of prior examples of everyday microcircuits that work just fine in the environments this NEX 7 is getting used in.

Unlike the VG20's lack of features, this literally makes the camera inoperable. I don't see the two issues as being quite on the same level. Though, yes, both are made worse by Sony's over-reaching marketing departments.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Actually my point is that since these cameras weren't intended for professional users, they do not feel obligated to treat professionals who buy the cameras any different than "Joe Consumer". The NEX line from VG20 down are considered consumer level by Sony and not entitled to professional consideration.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

You're right, Chris. But can a company that treats consumers like this expect them to buy their products when/if they become professionals?

I'm looking seriously at selling my Panasonic TM900 to get a NEX-EA50 - but these advertising versus reality issues with the 5N/7 and the VG20 give me pause.

Bill

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

I agree that it is bad policy, but that seems to be what they have decided was best for their bottom line.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Beautiful Indonesian culture on show. :)

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Okay, new theory on the overheating issue.

NEX 7 set for ISO100, 1/60, Canon FD with adaptor. Room temperature is about 70-degrees.

I mounted the camera on a P&C Gearbox (Cage) and from a cold-start I was able to do a full 30-minutes.

Immediately, I started a second roll and it indicated an overheat within two minutes. (really, not surprising)

I let the camera sit 10-minutes to cool down.

Rolled again, got the full thirty minutes. (score!)

Let the camera sit 15-minutes, changed to ISO 1600.

First roll, overheat after only 15 minutes.

Once the camera completely cools (over an hour, or maybe tomorrow) I'll re-try this test at ISO 1600 to see if it fails again. If it does, high-ISO may be a contributing culprit.

----

I recalled that the first time I tried this camera in an interview setting - where it constantly overheated - I was also running a fairly high ISO due to the dark environment. The next time I used the camera, I only received one overheat warning all day long (during an interview, natch.), that time I was shooting at ISO100. Possible link? Maybe.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Let it rest an hour, started rolling at 1600ISO and it only made it to 16 minutes before giving an overheat warning.

Now, going to let it cool and see if going back to ISO100 will give me a full 30-minutes.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Let it cool for about 20 minutes. Set to ISO100 and it went the full 30-minutes without an issue.

Confirmed: high ISO is a contributing factor to overheating,

Note: all tests at 1080/60p

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Quite possibly an indicator that the higher ISOs are requiring more "post" processing in camera - maybe those little "Bionz" processors are working a lot harder to "clean up" the noise? Would make sense that it's "harder" and requires more work to achieve and maintain image quality.

Did you ever fiddle further with attaching a "heat sink" of some sort directly to the tripod mounting to see if you could draw off some of the heat you say is being generated in that area? It may be an impossible task if your new theory is correct, but might allow for "some" improvement?

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Very interesting theory with experimental back up. I wonder if it proves true with the Canon lines that were complaining of overheating.

I have not had an issue with the VG20, which I know uses a lot of post noise cleanup, but is probably otherwise the same chip as in the 5N..

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

I'm doubting that an external heatsink would accomplish anything. I did find another thread about the Sony A77 where someone quoted a Sony UK representative stating that high ISOs (1600 was the example) require more power to the imaging sensor (thereby generating more heat) and that's why video modes are sometimes limited to lower ISO than the camera may deliver in still mode (as the A77 is limited). If true, that is consistent with my findings for the NEX 7, though here Sony didn't impose quite the same software limitations (glad they didn't, but maybe a warning about limited record times would have been useful.)

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

That makes sense - I too noticed that the higher ISO's are greyed out (A65 and 57), though the existing ones seem quite adequate.

The heatsink question is based on the apparent possibility to design a camera with presumably "indentical" internal components (VG series) that is able to dissipate the heat generated so the camera has no thermal limitations. If Sony did it in the VG's, it should at least in theory be possible to achive a similar result in the NEX - of course you would have to increase the physical size of the camers, somewhat defeating the original compact design...

I've always suspected that the small NEX bodies impose a design constraint that tends to increase thermal issues. IF it were possible to draw off and dissipate some of that heat, it should in theory improve performance!

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

Looking at Nex 3/5/7 teardowns, there's no wasted space, virtually no air space for heat to dissipate - and little room for a heat sink. Makes sense that more processing power is needed at high ISO's, which would generate more heat.

I'm going to try this with my 5n and see if I get similar results.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

I cannot post it right now because youtube is firewalled at work but I´ve seen a video of a guy who used a pc cooling fan hooked to a small battery to cool the NEX off. He has posted a video showing the NEX enduring extreme heat like a trooper with this little device. I think that one of those portable usb power sources hooked up to a laptop fan could maybe do the trick.

Re: NEX 5N or 7 overheat issues...
 

I'm confused. Why not just buy a camera that shoots as long as you need it to and doesn't overheat?